Community

 
Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. Storm Vanguard - Aoe Striker, Controller... and...
Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 1 of 5  •  1 2 3 4 5 Next
Storm Vanguard - Aoe Striker, Controller... and a really tough guy
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 4:31AM #1
Pandexander
Posts: 846
Date Joined: 06/19/08


Wizards are very good at controlling the battlefield with pushes, knockdowns, immobilizing enemies and so on. With the right build they can do a lot of damage, especially against multiple enemies. But in both cases they are very fragile and cannot take serious damage...



... but not so this build. This wizard is a formidable ranged specialist, who can controll hordes of enemies, which he is pushing over the battlefield and knocking them down, while doing great damage to them... and heal himself in this way!

But lets see the build.

First: What is the Storm Vanguard? - The Storm Vanguard is a wizard with multiclass fighter and the Paragon Path "Iron Vanguard". He is played like most of the blaster and/or controller wizards but as said: He can deal and take a lot of damage.



Race

There are a few races which are good for the Storm Vanguard, rated with one * to three ***. (Races not rated, like Dragonborn for example, aren't good choices for the Storm Vanguard.)

Human: A good race for most builds, so for this one too. Take +2 for INT because it's our most important ability. The extra feat and extra at-will power are nice but we could live without them. The defense bonuses are really good for this build and we have the option to take a few good racial feats like Action Surge. All in all one of the best races (if not the best) ***


Dwarf: +2 CON (the second ability for the Storm Vanguard) and +2 WIS (third ability) make this race a solid choice. You can use your Second Wind with a minor action and you can choose the “Dwarven Durability” feat in Paragon level - really a good race, but in my opinion not as good as the human. **


Githyanki: +2 INT AND +2 CON - great! The racial encounter power isn't that good... but it's not bad either. Sad to say that there are no racial feats for this race at the moment... all in all a good choice, but it could be better. **


Tiefling: +2 INT (great), +2 CHA (worthless), really nice encounter power (which can be upgraded with feats), +1 attack bonus against bloodied foes (great), fire resistence (nice), nice racial feats - a solid choice. **


Eldarin: +2 INT (great), +2 DEX (worthless), an encounter teleport ability (great), +1 Will Defense (nice), an extra skill which can be from any class (nice... but we don't need it really), no good racial feats (bad)... the eldarin seems to be something in between. *


Doppelganger: +2 INT (great), +2 CHA (worthless), nice encounter powers (but useless for this build), +1 Will Defense (nice)... but no racial feats at the moment - like eldarin. *



Stats

22 point system, level 1 (without race bonuses):

STR: 13 (13 is needed for "Student of the Sword" but more than 13 is wasting points)
DEX: 10 (dump stat)
CON: 14 (one of the most important abilities, CON cannot be high enough for this build)
INT: 16 (it's a wizard... this is THE ability)
WIS: 14 (13 is minimum for "Burning Blizzard"... and it's an importent ability for the at-will power thunderwave, the main attack of the Storm Vanguard)
CHA: 8 (dump stat)



It follows a level 16 build for the Storm Vanguard to show how it works:

Race: Human (+2 to INT)
Class: Wizard (take Staff Specialization aka “Staff of Defense”
Paragon Path: Iron Vanguard
Level: 16

STR: 14
CON: 18
DEX: 11
INT: 22
WIS: 15
CHA: 9


Feats (heroic):
        [ ] Ritual Caster
        (1) Armor Proficiency (Leather)
        (1) Armor Proficiency (Hide)
        (2) Toughness
        (4) Action Surge
        (6) Burning Blizzard
        (8) Wintertouched
        (10) Student of the Sword

Feats (paragon):   
            (11) Solid Sound
        (12) Resounding Thunder
        (14) Lasting Frost
        (16) Armor Specialization (Hide)


Class Skills:
                Arcana (Int)
                Dungeoneering (Wis)
                Endurance (Con) [from "Student of the Sword"]
                Insight (Wis)
                Nature (Wis)
                Religion (Int)


Powers (at-will):       
                (1) Magic Missile
        (1) Illusory Ambush
        (1) Thunderwave

Powers (enc.):   
            (1) Icy Terrain
        (7) Spectral Ram
        (11) Frontline Surge [from Paragon Path "Iron Vanguard"]
        (13) Thunderlance

Powers (daily):       
                (5) Bigby’s Icy Grasp
        (5) Web
        (9) Mordenkainen’s Sword
        (9) Ice Storm
        (15) Bigby’s Grasping Hands
        (15) Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere

Powers (utility):       
                (2) Shield
        (2) Feather Fall
        (6) Invisibility
        (6) Levitate
        (10) Blur
        (10) Arcane Gate
        (12) Inexorable Shift [from Paragon Path "Iron Vanguard"]
        (16) Stoneskin
        (16) Fly


Equip.:   
        Magic Darkhide armor (Lvl 16)
    Staff of Winter (Lvl 14)
    Magic Wand (Lvl 16)
    Bracers of the Perfect Shot (Lvl 13)
    Boots of Striding and Springing (Lvl 14)
    Gauntlets of the Ram (Lvl 8)
    Diadem of Acuity (Lvl 8)
    Amulet of Protection (Lvl 16)
    Iron Ring of the Dwarf Lords (Lvl 14)
    Iron Ring of the Dwarf Lords (Lvl 14)
    Belt of Vigor (Lvl 12)

A few stats (magic equipment is considered) follow:

AC:    34
FORT:    27
REF:    29
WILL:    27

Speed:    7
Ini:    +8

Melee basic attack (with quarterstaff aka Staff of Winter):    +15
Dmg:    1d8+7

Attack with Magic Missile (using Staff of Winter as an implement):    +17
Dmg:    2d4+15

Hit Points:    98
Bloodied Value:    49
Healing Surges:    12/day (+2 through the Iron Rings of the Dwarf Lords)
Healing Surge Value:    26 (+2 through the Belt of Vigor)




So how does it work?

It's simple: Most of your powers (thunderwave for example) push your opponents away (Gauntlets of the Ram add 1 square to any distance a target is pushed) and/or knock them down. If one of these things happen the "Iron Vanguard" ability "Trample the Fallen" (p. 86) triggers and you do an additional damage equal to your CON modifier (if you push the target AND knock it prone it takes double your CON modifier). The knack is: In most cases you push more than one enemy! The feat "Resounding Thunder" extend your blasts and bursts... because most of your AoE powers are thunder keyworded.

Further: Most of your powers are thunder or force based: The Paragon feat "Solid Ground" adds +2 to one defense (not to AC) until the end of your next turn everytime you use such a power - and you have quiet good defenses without this feat!

You use a Staff of Winter, so every power you channel through it gains the cold keyword - "Last Frost" and "Wintertouched" triggers, gives you more damage and combat advantage against all of your enemies affected by your AoE spells.

Thanks to your good AC and other defenses you won't be hit so often... and you have ways to improve your defenses further (with "Solid Ground" or the Staff Specialization "Staff of Defense" for example)... and the best and greatest feature: If you kill enemies (let's say minions with your AoE spells ) you heal you CON modifier Hit Points per enemy fallen thanks to the "Iron Vanguard" ability "Enduring Warrior" (p. 86).

The “Iron Vanguard” powers aren’t worthless: Your “Staff of Winter” is a melee weapon too, you STR is not the best, but you have a chance to hit your enemy with “Frontline Surge” and “Indomitable Strength” (level 20 daily attack power) – the last power enables you to use a healing surge, regardless of hitting the enemy or not.

Resumed: Your defenses are good (all of the four), your damage is nice (and it is great against multiple enemies), your battlefield controll is good (pushing and knocking down lots of enemies) and you can heal yourself, especially if you are fighting against hordes of weak enemies.


So far, thats the Storm Vanguard.


I'm curious about your thoughts.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 5:06AM #2
Treantmonklvl20
Posts: 1,104
Date Joined: 11/21/06
Hmmm...This looks somewhat similar to my Staff Wizard build. We have both chosen to give the boost to Str to pick up hide prof/spec, and we've both chosen to focus on making the build durable, and we both chose human as the base race.

We both went with the 18 Int to start (after +2 from human) - but I went a little more single-mindedly towards Con. I think 14 works as well (went with 18/16 at level 1)

(I stuck to PHB and didn't add magic items - so different mathematical results (and I didn't do a level 16 snapshot) - expect they would play out similarly though)

The fighter multiclassing is an interesting choice. I'm not sure Str is high enough to be hitting with Frontline Surge or Indomitable Str much. Your Str is not being increased with levelups (except at 11 and 21 of course) so it will trail way behind Str primary classes - as well as way behind your Int. Probably going to be -5 to hit behind a fighter of equal level by 16 I expect.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 5:13AM #3
Pandexander
Posts: 846
Date Joined: 06/19/08

Treantmonklvl20 wrote:

Hmmm...This looks somewhat similar to my Staff Wizard build. We have both chosen to give the boost to Str to pick up hide prof/spec, and we've both chosen to focus on making the build durable, and we both chose human as the base race.

My build focused a bit more on Int and Con than yours did with base stats though (went with 18/16 at level 1)

(I stuck to PHB and didn't add magic items - so different mathematical results (and I didn't do a level 16 snapshot) - expect they would play out similarly though)

The fighter multiclassing is an interesting choice. I'm not sure Str is high enough to be hitting with Frontline Surge or Indomitable Str much. Your Str is not being increased with levelups (except at 11 and 21 of course) so it will trail way behind Str primary classes - as well as way behind your Int. Probably going to be -5 to hit behind a fighter of equal level by 16 I expect.


It's not a melee gish. The Storm Vanguard is a concept of a ranged fighting wizard with pushes and knockdown... and self healing abilities. His staff should be only used for his two "Iron Vanguard" melee attack powers (and both are not really important).

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 5:14AM #4
Subedei
Posts: 1,258
Date Joined: 12/01/05
True, though the Fighter multiclass for Iron Vanguard is a notably good idea. Excellent synergy and enhances everything the build means to excel at.

Depending on your team makeup, you are probably going to find yourself with enormous bonuses to hit sometimes (like if you Tactical Warlord is backing you up!). As long as such an opportunity presents itself once per encounter I don't think you'll find it too difficult to make use of that melee Daily and Encounter.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 9:43AM #5
Gwvsjohn
Posts: 10
Date Joined: 04/04/06
I'm probably missing something, but I don't see how using the Staff of Winter as your implement gives your spells the cold keyword.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 10:07AM #6
Notes
Posts: 90
Date Joined: 06/09/08
You're not missing anything; the staff of winter lacks the cold keyword. A frost staff would work, though.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 11:06AM #7
SeraphimDominion
Posts: 846
Date Joined: 11/03/05

Notes wrote:

You're not missing anything; the staff of winter lacks the cold keyword. A frost staff would work, though.


What would also work is to take Second Implement (wand), and grab a wand of some cold power in your off hand, and use that to cast spells, using the staff just for Staff of Defense.

You can't wield the staff as a weapon if you do that, but as you said those two powers aren't important and you aren't very good at melee anyway.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 11:40AM #8
Lab_Monkey
Posts: 46
Date Joined: 10/17/07

Notes wrote:

You're not missing anything; the staff of winter lacks the cold keyword. A frost staff would work, though.


I've read the threads about this (TML20's wizard thread and the Doomsayer thread), but I just can't see this customer service interpretation standing the test of time. No wands or staffs in the PHB have a "cold", "fire", "lightning", or "thunder" keyword. It requires a number of rather large assumptions to conclude that you add the keywords of powers stored in a wand to ALL spells cast using that wand. There is certainly nothing in the RAW to imply that this is the case.

Making a build based solely around the inference that you add the keywords of powers stored in a wand to all powers cast from the wand seems like too big of a stretch to me. If this was the case, why didn't the designers add the keywords to the item or provide an explicit power to show that this was the case? For instance, compare Staff of Winter to Frost Weapon. The Frost Weapon qualifies for Lasting Frost/Wintertouched, as far as I can tell the Staff of Winter does not.

In any case, I probably wouldn't allow it in a game where I was the DM.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 12:05PM #9
Notes
Posts: 90
Date Joined: 06/09/08
Page 226 "When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item’s power and the other power all apply."

Is a wand a magic item? Yes.

Can you, if a wizard or warlock, use a wand as part of a racial power or class power? If that power has the implement keyword, yes - see pages 131 and 157, the "Implement" sections for each class.

Can a wand have a power with a fear keyword? Yes.

Page 242. "A wand can contain an encounter power of any class capable of using wands. When you craft a wand, you can choose any encounter power that you know or that is available to your class."

Howl of doom is an encounter arcane fear implement thunder power for a warlock. Warlocks can use wands, and so can craft a wand of howling doom.

Where's the assumption? That's all straight RAW.

The designers explicitly say to look to the keywords of the item's power, not the keywords of the item itself.

A short list of wands and staffs in the PHB with the cold, fire, lightning, or thunder descriptors in their powers: flaming staff, frost staff, lightning staff, thundering staff, staff of storms, thunderwave staff, wand of fire burst, wand of icy rays, wand of witchfire. Others add other keywords.

You are correct that the staff of winter doesn't add the cold keyword; that item only helps those who are using powers with that keyword anyway, just like the staff of burning might.

As to whether to allow it or not - your house, your house-rules. The RAW remain the RAW.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 26, 2008 - 12:30PM #10
Gwvsjohn
Posts: 10
Date Joined: 04/04/06

Notes wrote:

A short list of wands and staffs in the PHB with the cold, fire, lightning, or thunder descriptors in their powers: flaming staff, frost staff, lightning staff, thundering staff, staff of storms, thunderwave staff, wand of fire burst, wand of icy rays, wand of witchfire. Others add other keywords.


Emphasis mine. The "weapon" staffs (staves?) don't have the implement keyword, so they can't be used to cast your spells.

If I'm not mistaken, regardless of your choice of Implement Mastery, you can still use any of the 3 implements to cast your spells, right? It seems this character would be best served by carrying a magic staff to get Staff of Defense and a magic wand with the Cold keyword and actually using the wand to cast his spells to get the nice feat synergies. If you actually wanted to attack with your staff, you'd need to put the wand away first.

If you want to avoid all that jazz and lose the cold stuff, it's still a cool character.

Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 5  •  1 2 3 4 5 Next
Post Reply
Jump Menu:
 
Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. Storm Vanguard - Aoe Striker, Controller... and...
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing