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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2008 - 8:31PM
#1
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For quite some time now the Doomsayer has been the black sheep of the paragon paths here on the boards. Mostly this has stemmed from the fact that Doomsayer's Proclamation only works on powers that have the Fear keyword and save ends effects (of which there are 1 warlock out of 3 powers in the PHB).
As many of you know there are ways of getting keywords added to your powers, but so far everyone's assumed you can only use Frost Weapon, and in this case Terror Weapon for this purpose. Given the warlock powers don't have the Weapon keyword, they really don't care.
Suppose you wander over to the.. ahem.. wands section. Hmm, nope none of the wands there have Fear as a keyword. Wait, what's this, we can make our own wands! Flip flip... Encounter powers... Dreadful Word, Frigid Darkness, Howl of Doom, Banish to the Void all have the Fear keyword, and thus when you make of a wand of that power and use that wand to make attacks with your Warlock powers, you add all those keywords to your power (p226 paragraph 3 PHB).
So now you make yourself a Wand of Howl of Doom and add Fear and Thunder to all your warlock powers. Hey, there's even some cool feats that enhance Thunder spells, like say +1 to burst and blast sizes. Fun!
Then again you might prefer a Wand of Frigid Darkness to add Fear and Cold for Lasting Frost and Wintertouched combos.
What about Wizards you say? I'm not sure how one might stack some of the bonus damage feats if you deal cold, fire, acid and lighting damage, but at first thought you would add +1 for each element. Not a bad deal if you can find a power with enough keywords you can make a wand out of.
In fact all the feats that trigger on keywords become so much more interesting in light of the fact that weapons and implements transfer keywords to powers.
Cheers to WotC if this was an intentional mechanic. I like it.
The Hanker Chief
P.S. Here's the key quote:
PHB pg 226 paragraph 3: When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item’s power and the other power all apply.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2008 - 8:47PM
#2
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Wrong. Suppose you wander over to the.. ahem.. wands section. Hmm, nope none of the wands there have Fear as a keyword. Wait, what's this, we can make our own wands! Flip flip... Encounter powers... Dreadful Word, Frigid Darkness, Howl of Doom, Banish to the Void all have the Fear keyword, and thus when you make of a wand of that power and use that wand to make attacks with your Warlock powers, you add all those keywords to your power (p226 paragraph 3 PHB).
No you can't.
You see, you made a grevious error - you assumed that these, in wand form, would have the fear keyword on the wand. They don't. Why? Because it doesn't say they do.
The power ITSELF has the appropriate keyword, but the wand does not. Having a wand of Howl of Doom does not give all powers you use the Fear keyword, any more than the Wand of Witchfire gives all powers you use the Fire keyword.
Look at the wands if you don't believe me; none have the keyword of the spell attached to them.
Nice try though.
While using the power in the wand, it certainly does have whatever keywords that power has, but that's a result of the power, not the wand itself.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2008 - 9:20PM
#3
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Witchfire pg 132
Encounter Arcane, Fire, Implement
Wand of Witchfire pg 244
Power (Daily Arcane, Fire, Implement):
Soul Flaying pg 136
Encounter Arcane, Implement, Necrotic
Wand of Soul Flaying pg 244
Power (Daily Arcane, Implement, Necrotic):
It looks like to me the wand gets the keywords of the spell.
Looking at Frost Weapon pg 234
Power (At-Will Cold):
Power (Daily Cold):
are the only mentions of Cold keyword, yet we know Frost Weapons give the Cold keyword to the powers you activate through them per the rules on p226.
I don't see any place where it says "magic weapons, but not implements", so I would contend that just as Frost Weapon gives Cold, Wand of Witchfire gives Fire, and thus Wand of Howl of Doom gives Fear and Thunder.
The Hanker Chief
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2008 - 9:49PM
#4
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It only gives them when you use a /power/ of the magic item. You don't get fear 24/7 off a terror weapon. Just when you use the item power with the keyword. So you /would/ get the bonus when using the wand power, but not for general use. Frost, Shock, and Fiery have at-will powers, which is why they're so useful.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2008 - 10:17PM
#5
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PHB pg 226: Like racial powers and class powers, magic item
powers often have keywords that indicate their
damage or effect types. When you use a magic item as
part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords
of the item’s power and the other power all apply. For
instance, if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack
with a power that deals radiant damage, the power
deals both fire damage and radiant damage.
The important part here is if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack
with a power that deals radiant damage, the power
deals both fire damage and radiant damage.
This is further strengthened by the Consolidated Customer Service Answers Thread:
Q: Does a Frost weapon trigger effects based on the Cold keyword such as Wintertouched and Lasting Frost?
a: As PHB page 226 states, using a weapon with a keyword in an attack made with a racial or class power, the power you are using does gain the weapon's keyword.
Thus making using attack with a Frost Weapon makes that power be Cold as well as whatever other types of damage it was. If you use the weapon's free action power, all damage will be cold.
This will function with both the Winter Touched and Lasting Frost feats
I would say that this evidence clearly means that implements give every keyword in every power they have to any class or racial power you use that implement with.
I use my +4 Wand of Witchfire to cast Eldritch Blast. I attack Con +4 vs. Reflex and the keywords are Arcane, Implement, Fire
is equivalent to
I use my +4 Frost Sword to do a Holy Strike. I attack Strength +4 vs. AC and the keywords are Divine, Radiant, Weapon, Cold. Half the damage (round up) is Radiant, the other half (round down) is cold
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2008 - 10:57PM
#6
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I use my +4 Wand of Witchfire to cast Eldritch Blast. I attack Con +4 vs. Reflex and the keywords are Arcane, Implement, Fire
is equivalent to
I use my +4 Frost Sword to do a Holy Strike. I attack Strength +4 vs. AC and the keywords are Divine, Radiant, Weapon, Cold. Half the damage (round up) is Radiant, the other half (round down) is cold
You are making an assumption that implements = weapons or specifically that wand(s) power = frost blade's power.
You need to show where in the book this is stated, or it is not true.
A Frost-blade pact weapon (if you could make one) might do what you want for frost, or a (customized) terror pact blade. Actually a terror weapon and correlon's implement from Spiral tower mage might do what you want (DM's discression though so YMMV).
A wand only has + enhancement (& + critical) until you activate its daily power, and that power has the properties listed onder the power section of the wand.
It still gets you an extra fear (or whatever encounter spell you want) once a day which isn't bad.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2008 - 11:20PM
#7
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You are making an assumption that implements = weapons or specifically that wand(s) power = frost blade's power.
You need to show where in the book this is stated, or it is not true.
I'm pretty sure I did:
PHB pg 226 paragraph 3: When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item’s power and the other power all apply.
Note that is says "magic item" (not weapon, thus including implements)
Note also that it does not say "when you use a magic item's power in conjunction with a racial or class power". This point is clarified in the CustServ response where it says "If you use the weapon's free action power, all damage will be cold." implying that the use of the at-will power of Frost Weapon was optional.
Good grief, this seems difficult. I almost regret sharing this with the community. Clearly I need to go add the big bold text of pg226 paragraph 3 to the original post before more people just read the first and last post and assume I'm wrong.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 23, 2008 - 11:42PM
#8
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It only gives them when you use a /power/ of the magic item. You don't get fear 24/7 off a terror weapon. Just when you use the item power with the keyword. So you /would/ get the bonus when using the wand power, but not for general use. Frost, Shock, and Fiery have at-will powers, which is why they're so useful.
Hmmm . . . The way I read the PHB every power used through a wand with the fear keyword also gets the fear keyword. "When you use a magic item as part of a class power or a racial power, the keywords of the item's power and the other power all apply."
Doesn't say anything about using the item's power.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 24, 2008 - 12:04AM
#9
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Well, it appears that this is valid in the RAW. It may even be intended.
Anybody wanna ask customer service directly about the particular example (wand of howl of terror)?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 24, 2008 - 12:08AM
#10
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This has pretty big implications for wizards. If you have the spell focus feat, there is only a 20% to save. This is like having a 20 wisdom orb effect on every creature in the blast radius. Thunder adds one to the blast radius, so that makes it even better.
Pretty compelling reason to look at Doomsayer for a paragon path. Too bad both the attack powers suck.
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