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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 9:06AM
#1
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Hello and welcome to the 4e Optimization of the Characters Forum. What follows are some basic tips that will help make your character superior in the long run. Some of this is tactics.
#0. Keep on the Shadowfell Pre-gens are garbage The Fighter: ... should take Dwarven Weapon Training at level 1 (and never power attack). ... should use a Warhammer and Heavy Shield. ... should use throwing hammers or throwing axes instead of daggers. The Wizard: ... should have Thunderwave instead of Ray of Frost. ... should have Flaming Sphere instead of Acid Arrow. ... should have a smaller picture so that all the cantrips could be displayed. The Paladin: ... should swap Wisdom and Charisma (it doesn't have Bolstering Strike so the Healing Hands feat is like the only thing that uses Charisma). ... should not have Healing Hands. Almost anything is better. ... Dragon Breath should be +6 vs. Reflex (Str + 2 vs. Reflex). The Cleric: ... smaller picture so that the missing power can be displayed.
#1. Know your allies! Your allies matter. What they do matters (and I just don't mean when the Rogue steals your kill).
#2. 4e is very much a Triple Attribute Dependant (TAD) game. You can't fight it. You just have to accept this. Making matters worse however is that over 28 levels you only get 2 stats that dramatically improve. Over 28 levels your attributes go up +8, +8, +2, +2, +2, +2. So you need good fundamentals.. I mean starting stats.
There are three attribute arrays that really appeal to me.
The first is: 16, 14, 14, 13, 10, 8 (this is the most balanced) The second is: 16, 16, 13, 11, 10, 8 (this opens up Epic Feats and Paragon Feats) The third is: 16, 16, 12, 12, 10, 8 (this maxes your overall pluses at level 28+)
I don't particularly recommend the second array as it possibly nerves your third defense score, but if you really feel the need to have a second starting 16 (or 18 due to racial bonuses) go with it.
#3. You Will Miss With Attack Rolls! Law of Averages meets Murphy's Law equals "Did I seriously just miss with my daily ability?" It will happen, so all you and I can do is plan accordingly.
Attack Bonuses are king in 4e.
This means making sure your At-Will Powers are as versatile as possible. By versatile, I mean attacking different defenses. Some classes have no luck here.
#4. Minion Management is Key in 4e. "Ha ha! It's a minion. It is so cute. And it can't hur-" *stabbed by minion* "OW! How did it hit me!?"
Minions have the same attack modifier as a standard monster of the same level. But they do static damage. In fact, it is arguable that 4 Kobold Minions (level 1) are more dangerous than a Kobold Skirmisher (level 2). Manage those minions if possible.
This means finding ways to do 1+ damage without an attack roll, or being able to hit a wide area.
#5. Shore up your weak Defense. Remember before how I said you get only two strong stats in 4e? Your stats are probably going to end up: 24, 22, 16, 14, 14, 10. And there are no magic items to improve stats. So that may mean 2 or just 1 strong defense.
Why just one? There are some classes that are well served by having both stats associated with one defense high. For instance, Dwarven Hammer Fighters benefit from having a high Strength score and Constitution score.
Fortunately there are feats you can select in the Paragon Tier that add +2 to a single defense. Don't forget that each defense (including AC) goes up by 1 at each even level.
#6. Look at the paragon feats and find a few that jive well together. Why did I say above that Dwarven Fighters benefit from High Strength and Constitution? Well the Con isn't just for hit points/healing surges. Hammer Rhythm lets a Hammer user deal Con modifier damage on a miss (but only if the attack otherwise deals no damage on a miss, you can't stack this with Reaping Strike to deal Str + Con damage on a miss).
#7. Use your encounter abilities. Eventually you have 4 encounter abilities, make sure they are ones in you can use in a lot of situations.
#8. Pay close attention to initiative order, effects and initiative/turn manipulation rules ... delay, action points, etc. Many effects and conditions (marks, challenges, ongoing, etc.) are keyed off of specific people's turns. You can do some neat things yourself but you'll quickly find that optimizing your actions and their order with your party can pay off huge.
#9. You can only spend one Action Point and Second Wind per encounter. So do it at the right time. Hopefully before your party has to start bailing water out of the sinking ship. Action Point usage is best done near the onset of the fight. If using an action point lets you more than double your action you can pull off some nifty effects. If you happen to drop or otherwise impede a foe, that foe can't do as much.
Second Wind doesn't just heal you, it also gives +2 Defenses.
#10. Paragon Multiclassing (PM) is generally terrible. There are several reasons for this. 1. Which attributes does the class use? Is it different than one of your main attributes? If so, you just picked up a host of powers that are going to fail to hit. In general, powers picked up via Paragon Multiclassing had better target alternate defenses and have attack bonuses near to your pre-existing powers. 2. You swap the At-Will. You don't get a new one. If Paragon Multiclassing gave you one At-Will of the new class, I might get on board with it. 3. You give up your Paragon Path. 4. You don't get proficiencies or class features of the new class and your hit points remain the same. Gish players, I am looking at you! Your Wizard with the PM Fighter are a load of FAIL.
There are some exceptions. All of these center around being able to pick up abilities that already use your strong attributes in their attacks. Cha Warlocks with a PM for Paladin (Bolstering Strike is Cha vs AC so it can give a human Warlock a decent At-Will melee attack).
#11. Multiclass Feats A lot of the Multiclass feats are pure garbage unless they require no check to activate or already use an attribute you are strong in. For instance, Tactical Warlords benefit from Arcane Initiate because Scorching Burst is a decent per encounter power. Utility powers are rarely a mistake because a lot of the time they don't make rolls to activate.
You can always retrain and swap these powers, but you can only have one for each of the swap powers at a time. So if you take a Utility 6 power at level 6 and decent later you want that level 10 utility, you can swap your 6 for a 6 from your class, then pick up a 10 from the other class. This is the only exception to the normal "You can only swap one power at a level up" rule.
#12. Paragon Path through Multiclass Feats You can make a Knock Around wizard that goes into the Iron Vanguard because you took Student of the Sword. Not saying you should (I happen to believe Battle Mage is a better path for a Wizard than Iron Vanguard), just that you can.
#13. It's not what you can do for your environment, it's what your environment can do for you. *Strikes Uncle Sam pose* Cliffs, lava, environment effects... Push them in it!
#14. Heavy Thrown weapon descriptor. We can't all have a great Dexterity score. Heavy Thrown lets you use your Strength for attack and damage.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 9:13AM
#2
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AMEN
Some personal observations ...
For right now I'm avoiding any builds that require high attributes in the same couplet. I want to concentrate on 1 from each couplet.
Using those encounters quickly is something that playing in the playtest really enforced. The first few encounters we were rusty ... but then we got into the rythm of resource management. Use those encounters, and pick useful ones.
In the first playtest group we were playing 6th level and I had the wizard ... I was the only character that could attack every defense and that was incredibly useful.
+1 on the attribute arrays
#7. Pay close attention to initiative order, effects and initiative/turn manipulation rules ... delay, action points, etc. Many effects and conditions (marks, challenges, ongoing, etc.) are keyed off of specific people's tunrs. You can do some neat things yourself but you'll quickly find that optimizing your actions and their order with your party can pay off huge.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 9:23AM
#3
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What do you mean +1 on the attribute arrays? Were they too low?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 9:27AM
#4
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Looks good to me. Everything I've seen of 4e supports what you've said, and your insights are appreciated.
Thanks, -- N
Want your forums to look like forums? Use FireFox + Stylish + this Stylish script. UPDATED September 9, 2009.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 9:37AM
#5
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What do you mean +1 on the attribute arrays? I believe he means "if posting on internet forums were scored like a video game, then you would have just earned one additional point to your score." It's basically just a thumbs-up.
And I second it. +1.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 9:38AM
#6
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You have an unspent point in your second array. 16 16 13 11 10 8 seems like the best way to spend it.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 9:42AM
#7
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You have an unspent point in your second array. 16 16 13 11 10 8 seems like the best way to spend it. 9 + 9 + 3 + 1 + 0 + 0... Carry the 2... Bend at the knees, not the waist... Yes, I was missing a point. Thank you. I agree, the 13 makes qualifying for a feat easier.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 9:43AM
#8
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You have an unspent point in your second array. 16 16 13 11 10 8 seems like the best way to spend it. 16 16 12 12 10 8 is much better in my opinion.
The 13+ requirement feats come in paragon (where you have 13 on both by then), and this way you get a +1 to 2 different stats.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 10:12AM
#9
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About opportunity actions, note that you can make one opportunity action per each other combatant. This means that you can make one opportunity attack per enemy each turn.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 10:14AM
#10
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What do you think about maxing an attribute?
edit: Argh, I'm a noob! I was basing my commentary off of the PRE-release online handbook which was full of LIES. Foul lies! I sort of thought that you could drop points off of the 10s and lower to 8, thus gaining points. all 8s with 32 pts = 8,10x5 with 22 points.
Since that doesnt work, the 18 stat would gimp your other stats so fiercely, it would not be worthwhile.
My Sorc Guide Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19649162/Joes_Sorcerer_Guide_AP_update_51509
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