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The Astral Demigod: How to kill Orcus with one basic melee attack
2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 1:43PM #1
Arismir
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 01/14/05
Inspired by the Divine Recovery + Elven Accuracy = Infinite Rerolls thread, I originally posted the build there; however, I would like to create a new thread for discussion specifically about this build instead of the mechanics of Divine Miracle and Elven Accuracy.

The Astral Demigod
How to kill Orcus with one basic melee attack



Level 30 Elf Paladin / Astral Weapon / Demigod
Tools:
Elven Accuracy
Pray for More
Divine Miracle
Vorpal Weapon
[!] Given this build, there are no additional feats, optional class powers, or ability scores that are required to accomplish the trick.

How it works:
Setup: Before attacking you must expend every encounter power you have except Elven Accuracy.
Execution:
Step (1) Approach your enemy.
Step (2) Perform a basic melee attack.
∟(2a) Regardless of the roll (even a natural 20), use Elven Accuracy to reroll.
Step (3) Reroll your attack. After rerolling, Elven Accuracy has been expended and you can use Divine Miracle.
∟(3a) If you roll a natural 20, you hit. Use Divine Miracle to recover Pray for More.
∟(3b) If you do not roll a natural 20, you might not hit. Use Divine Miracle to recover Elven Accuracy . Repeat Step (3).
Step (4) Roll for damage.
∟(4a) If you roll max damage, roll an additional die as provided by Vorpal Weapon. Repeat Step (4).
∟(4b) If you do not roll max damage, use Pray for More to reroll your damage. Upon expending Pray for More, use Divine Miracle to recover it. Repeat Step (4).
Step (5) Repeat Step (4) until your damage is greater than your target's hit points and other miscellaneous modifiers such as temporary hit points or resistances.
Step (6) To end the cycle after completing Step (5), Use Divine Miracle to recover Elven Accuracy instead of Pray for More. Thus, you will be able to repeat this trick upon your next attack.


Conclusion:
This build is capable of instantly killing anything with a basic melee attack at-will. Furthermore, the trick can be accomplished with any At-Will or Daily power also. However, It can not be used with an Encounter power! Astral Whirlwind would be great if you ever ran into a pack of Elder Red Dragons. You could even perform this trick multiple times in a single turn from things such as Opportunity Attacks or other bonus attacks.

Furthermore, the build is completely independent of feats, other powers, and ability scores. In terms of optimizing any of those, I would suggest optimizing your survivability as you no longer need to worry about your offensive capabilities.

Also, the base class of Paladin is not required. Only Astral Weapon and Demigod are required. Therefore, in the pursuit of defeating Orcus with each class, Level 30 Elf x / Astral Weapon / Demigod with Soldier of the Faith can serve as a template for any class.

Enjoy.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 2:05PM #2
Iry
Posts: 190
Date Joined: 08/20/02
This is a hilarious and awesome combination to find. I definitely applaud the work and research it took to come across this gem of a combo. It certainly belongs in the realm of Theoretical Optimization, though.

One rules quandary. Would Pray for More require you to reroll ALL the dice involved in the attack, even the ones that have come up as maximum damage previously, or does the wording on Vorpal somehow make the additional damage dice separate from the initial roll?

I can see it leaning towards the latter, with the wording on Vorpal coming off as a variation on High Critical or the like. Unfortunately, I see almost every DM in the world letting you reroll High Critical + Base damage with Pray for More as one encounter power. The latter means you only have theoretically infinite damage, but really your damage is equal to how many times you're willing to roll the dice before people get angry at you.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 3:09PM #3
Nifft
Posts: 893
Date Joined: 04/08/03

Arismir wrote:

Setup: Before attacking you must expend every encounter power you have except Elven Accuracy. (Use them on the nearest rabbit each morning.)


I'm compelled to point out you can't expend Encounter powers until you are actually in an encounter.

Cheers, -- N

Want your forums to look like forums? Use FireFox + Stylish + this Stylish script. UPDATED September 9, 2009.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 3:10PM #4
SetentaeBolg
Posts: 48
Date Joined: 06/27/03
Well, this is certainly impressive! I think it works, with the proviso as pointed out that you actually have to be willing to roll hundreds and thousands of dice for damage.

On the other hand, if you have a GM who understands mathematical proofs, you can simply demonstrate that you can achieve infinite damage to them in every encounter, providing you can act once.

They should accept that, put their GM screen away, declare you the winner of D&D, and cry themselves to sleep at night.

I'm imagining we might see an "update" on Divine Miracle at some point, though (although we haven't yet seen corrections for Blade Cascade or Seal of Binding - one assumes they're working on it...)

EDIT: Nifft, I really don't think that's a valid criticism - first of all, one can "create" an encounter at any point by determinedly declaring to a rabbit "thee, I will slay!" and then launching at it; secondly, it was very much my impression that encounter powers could be used at any point. I don't think there's a rule contrary to that is there? And if there is, does it not fly in the face of common sense?
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 3:14PM #5
Vikingkingq
Posts: 282
Date Joined: 10/08/05
I may have missed something here.

I can see how Pray For More allows you to re-roll your damage roll, but nothing that shows it allowing you to add any damage or make a second attack. So how does this do infinite damage?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see it now. Sigh. One more item for the errata pile.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 3:16PM #6
Arismir
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 01/14/05

Nifft]I'm compelled to point out you can't expend Encounter powers until you are actually in an encounter.


You're joking right wrote:

I'm compelled to point out you can't expend Encounter powers until you are actually in an encounter.[/quote]
You're joking right?

Vikingkingq wrote:

I may have missed something here.

I can see how Pray For More allows you to re-roll your damage roll, but nothing that shows it allowing you to add any damage or make a second attack. So how does this do infinite damage?


Vorpal Weapon.

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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 3:23PM #7
SeraphimDominion
Posts: 846
Date Joined: 11/03/05
This would run afoul of the rule about requiring actual meaningful threats to use your powers.

According to RAW, you can't attack a bunny to allow you to Cleave into Orcus, and so you cannot attack a bunny just to dump your encounter powers. You would have to use them in the actual encounter.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 3:23PM #8
Nifft
Posts: 893
Date Joined: 04/08/03

Arismir wrote:

You're joking right?


Nope, just temporarily insane.

Carry on.

Cheers, -- N

Want your forums to look like forums? Use FireFox + Stylish + this Stylish script. UPDATED September 9, 2009.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 3:24PM #9
Nifft
Posts: 893
Date Joined: 04/08/03

SeraphimDominion wrote:

This would run afoul of the rule about requiring actual meaningful threats to use your powers.

According to RAW, you can't attack a bunny to allow you to Cleave into Orcus, and so you cannot attack a bunny just to dump your encounter powers. You would have to use them in the actual encounter.


He has to use them in an actual encounter.

He just has to refrain from taking a Short Rest before visiting Orcus.

Cheers, -- N

Want your forums to look like forums? Use FireFox + Stylish + this Stylish script. UPDATED September 9, 2009.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 25, 2008 - 3:26PM #10
Arismir
Posts: 137
Date Joined: 01/14/05

SeraphimDominion wrote:

This would run afoul of the rule about requiring actual meaningful threats to use your powers.

According to RAW, you can't attack a bunny to allow you to Cleave into Orcus, and so you cannot attack a bunny just to dump your encounter powers. You would have to use them in the actual encounter.


Well I am actually glad to see that the fault everyone is choosing to point out is the slaughtering of rabbits. I am glad, because this is the least important part of the build. Just go through some encounters before you can use this then. The trick will still work whether you can kill bunnies or not.

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