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Mettle and evasion: not worthwhile yet
2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2008 - 10:01AM #1
Notes
Posts: 90
Date Joined: 06/09/08
This started as an effort to figure out which paragon and epic tier monsters had attacks potentially subject to mettle and evasion and then use that information to judge their value as feats.

I found only 22 paragon monsters and 12 epic monsters in the MM.
Spoiler: Show

Epic
ancient black dragon
ancient blue dragon
ancient red dragon
blackfire dracolich
dread wraith
elder red dragon
fire titan
marut concordant
runescribed dracolich
storm giant
storm titan
thunderblast cyclone

Paragon
adult blue dragon
adult red dragon
bralani of autumn winds
destrachan far voice
dracolich
earth titan
eidolon
elder black dragon
elder blue dragon
fire archon ash disciple
firelasher
guardian naga
ice archon hailscourge
ice archon frostshaper
kuo-toa monitor
mindflayer infiltrator
mindflayer mastermind
redspawn firebelcher
spirit devourer
stormrage shambler
thunderfury boar
treant

Should I have overlooked anything, please let me know


Aside from dracoliches and Storm Giants or Titans, the miss effect for all the relevant powers is only half damage. Each of the monsters has, and may be expected to use, other attacks as alternatives, using these powers no more than once every 2-3 rounds.

My conclusion is that the feats come into play too rarely against monsters, and have too little impact when they do, to be worthwhile at present.

The traditional use for these feats of "fireballing the rogue" is also unlikely to be of value. In epic, spell accuracy solves the problem for the wizard; the 4e cleric has never had it. Even in Paragon, it is unlikely for the character with evasion to possess a defense sufficiently ahead of the wizard to make this advisable, and the present list of powers doesn't present a blast or area attack devastating enough to make it worthwhile to build a character around.
Spoiler: Show

It is possible to do this.

Assume a rogue with 23 dexterity at level 11, with a heavy shield, an amulet of protection +3, lightning reflexes, solid sound, and the multiclassed wizard utility spell shield - his reflex defense is 31 for the attack. Assuming a wizard with 21 intelligence at level 11 and an implement +3, his attack bonus is 13 - the rogue will completely avoid the fireball on an attack roll of 17 or lower. Not ideal, but considerably better odds than usual.

Unfortunately, the 4e fireball isn't worth building a trick around.


The other traditional use (dodging a trap) has also become less of a priority. As the effects of a failed disable attempt for DMG traps have no miss effects, there is no particular advantage to having the party's thievery skill character also have evasion or mettle.

Mettle is a solution in search of a problem, and presently not worth taking without unusual and campaign-specific reasons.

That said, evasion may not be a bad spare feat to take, particularly if you expect a lot of dragons in your campaign. An anti-dragonbreath feat is a bit specialized, but not necessarily suboptimal.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2008 - 10:15AM #2
Favored_Enemy
Posts: 657
Date Joined: 11/28/04
Good post!
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2008 - 8:24PM #3
C_A
Posts: 185
Date Joined: 06/10/08
Excellent post. I haven't had a chance to go through the MM in any detail yet. My defensive fighter build currently has both evasion and mettle in it because I figured, "I'm a defender with pretty high saves, I clearly need this." Given your post, I may have to rethink that.
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2 years ago  ::  Jun 20, 2008 - 10:34PM #4
Lichen
Posts: 27
Date Joined: 06/10/08
I think you're missing out for consideration humanoid monsters who are built with PC classes, which depending on the campaign, may have a bigger role than the monsters in the MM.
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