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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 7:14AM
#1
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So, going by the information presented in the multiclassing excerpt, and information released elsewhere, we're looking at ~18 feats over 30 levels. A goodly number of the feats we've been shown so far have, quite frankly, been underwhelming (as expected, with that much feat access available to every character).
But what's been strong so far? Powers.
With the abundance of feat slots, and the seeming weakness of the previewed feats so far, it really seems like there will be little reason *not* to Multi-class. Even if you're just snagging two or three feats, a 1/encounter Heal or Feather Me Yon Oaf on every party member will likely be superior to the small benefits of other feats.
It can also open up whole new venues of playstyle. The Intelligence-Based Warlord, for instance, could Multiclass into Wizard, and grab some AOEs for synergy with his Class ability of +(1/2)INT to party damage. The multi-class feats seem like a goodly source of ranged powers for those who don't get them from their base class (Although this risks MAD).
My only concern is that it seems like a bad idea *not* to Multiclass. But then, book isn't out yet, so we don't have the full picture. There may be really strong Paragon/Epic feats that require multiple Heroic/Paragon teir "meh" feats.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 7:18AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2006
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None of the feats we've seen so far have had any listed feat prerequisites, just a prerequisite of tier and sometimes ability score or class.
While it will almost invariably be worth it to drop one feat on a splash of another class, the power swap feats are more nebulous. They gain you no power, only versatility, so any power gain at all that you could get from that feat slot trumps it.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 8:03AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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None of the feats we've seen so far have had any listed feat prerequisites, just a prerequisite of tier and sometimes ability score or class.
While it will almost invariably be worth it to drop one feat on a splash of another class, the power swap feats are more nebulous. They gain you no power, only versatility, so any power gain at all that you could get from that feat slot trumps it.
The question, then, is: How to optimize the power-swap feats? 
I mean, there's bound to be people asking how to effectively make a fireball-slinging rogue...
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 9:06AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2002
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The class dabbling feats seem excellent, because you just trade a feat for them and they seem to pack more punch than many of the other feats.
The power swap feats might be good under certain assumptions.
a) That there's powers you can combo together so that
Power(A+B) > Power(A) + Power(B)
b) That there's cross-class combos that are more powerful than combos within a single class
Power(A1+B2) > Power(A1+B1)
c) That the difference is greater than the power of the feat you're giving up on. Which would be the least powerful feat available at that level, since we assume you start shaving off your least powerful availabe feat.
Power(A1+B2) - Power(A1+B1) > min(Power(Feat))
These assumptions don't seem too far out.
There's also the fact that the Power Swap feats are neatly subdivided into Encounter, Utility, Daily. So for certain class combos, you may be looking at only giving up one feat (say, for a Utility swap), for others the optimal builds might use the full multiclassing feat suite.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 10:33AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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The real question is going to be if you can take the feats multiple times; otherwise, we won't be opping the feats, but instead opping the power selections.
That being said, the Justicar ability Just Radiance (Melee weapon burst, cha vs will, 2d8 +Cha, those hit cannot make an attack that does not include you) requires the targets be marked; the fighter might be better at marking, so a Fighter with the paladin multiclass going into the Justicar paragon path can perhaps utilize this ability better.
Especially if it's a dragon born, assuming that the breath weapon (which is an attack) works the way it should with marking (should mark all since he attacked).
I think these are the combos that we're going to be looking at; they seem focused on roles, though, so looking at things that share a role or part of a role will be good. For instance, the cleric ability that marks for a paladin multiclass...
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 5:13PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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It seems to me that a new assumption was made that most characters will want to pick up one base multiclassing feat (fighter, ranger, cleric, and warlord look like they'll be more popular, with the rogue, warlock, wizard, and paladin multiclass feats being a little more concept- or goal-specific). I think it's fine; it makes sense to me that most adventurers would actually end up stepping outside of their predefined class just a little bit. And in any case, it beats the bloody daylights out of 3.x's "Either you want to multiclass to excess or not at all" problem; "Everyone is multiclassed just a smidge" is pretty inoffensive.
The power-swap feats, however, do look like they won't be as much a matter of course as grabbing an initial multiclass feat, but will instead be more for characters with a more particular concept or build in mind. Also fine.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 7:41PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2004
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Sounds like it may be fun mixing and matching classes with paragon paths. For example, a paladin with fighter training picking up the kensai path, or a fighter taking the battlemage path (assuming they have someone tweaked their builds to be able to maximize those benefits). 
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 7:46PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2007
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Sounds like it may be fun mixing and matching classes with paragon paths. For example, a paladin with fighter training picking up the kensai path, or a fighter taking the battlemage path (assuming they have someone tweaked their builds to be able to maximize those benefits).
Bah, I've been maintaining that the best use of Kensai would be to produce a swashbuckler rogue. Rogue your butt off, take some stuff from Fighter, then take Kensai :D
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 7:52PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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Bah, I've been maintaining that the best use of Kensai would be to produce a swashbuckler rogue. Rogue your butt off, take some stuff from Fighter, then take Kensai :D
I dunno, for a swashbuckler rogue I'd think there'd be a paragon path for it (native to the rogue, I mean). I wouldn't be surprised if it does to the rogue what the warpriest does to the cleric, assuming the devs didn't decide somewhere along the line that it's OK for clerics to get a defendery streak without multiclassing but not OK for rogues to get a defendery streak without multiclassing.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 11:13PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2007
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I dunno, for a swashbuckler rogue I'd think there'd be a paragon path for it (native to the rogue, I mean). I wouldn't be surprised if it does to the rogue what the warpriest does to the cleric, assuming the devs didn't decide somewhere along the line that it's OK for clerics to get a defendery streak without multiclassing but not OK for rogues to get a defendery streak without multiclassing.
Truthfully I wasn't even considering it giving the Rogue a defender'y streak. I was just thinking it'd be just like multiclass or gestalting Fighter/Rogue to get the BAB and fighter feats (weapon spec, etc) 
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