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5 years ago  ::  May 16, 2008 - 1:44PM #11
Faerieheart_Wolf
Date Joined: Apr 5, 2008
Posts: 192

SeraphimDominion wrote:

I would venture to say that you are in the minority here. There have been many studies about creature types in video games, as a parallel, and it turns out that most people want to play humanoid things that are attractive by human standards. That's not a hard-and-fast rule, some people want monstrous or ugly characters, but a large majority of players, when given the choice between say, an elf and an orc, will choose the elf.

So most humanoid-like creatures are going to be attractive and humanlike, differeing in one or two noticeable ways.


Very true when the other options are ugly monstrosities with no consideration for aesthetics. Something can both look non-human AND pleasing to the eye, and that's where the most mistakes are made. Most of these non-humans in these games are poorly done and purposely made repugnant. No wonder no one wants to play them.

When done well though: Take Red from final Fantasy 7, a large number of people I knew loved Red, he was well done, and he wasn't even humanoid at all. If done well a lot of people will flock to play this to do something different. I've known numerous players that beg to play monstrous pcs just because they find the regular races too bland and boring. The usual response: "I'm a human in real life, I want to be something different."

Some even want to be quadrupedal so they can be even more non-human. So say what you will about being in the minority, from the people I've met and played with, we are a damn large minority, but then again, I suppose since we are a "minority" we don't matter, and should be ignored.

Also you need to consider something very important here, in video games EVERYTHING is visual based. You're going to be looking at the character all day. I've known guys that played female characters in video games for the only reason that they think the character is hot and would rather stare at a cute chick all day, not because they empathize with the character or anything of that sort.

D&D is VERY different from a video game, and such studies are mostly irrelevant. It also hurts when the females of these repugnant species are given overtly human traits like breasts. Which causes both males and females to see them as ugly girls and not as entirely separate species. The first thought is female, the next thought is ewe. People don't have that reaction when they see female dogs, hippos, lions, dolphins, bovines, ect, and do you know why? It's because they lack breasts, which for our species is a human sexual cue, and causes us to judge the whole in a sexual feminine light. We don't judge the sexual appeal of cows, dogs, and emus, because we instinctively recognize them as separate species first and there sex is a secondary characteristic. Put breasts on them, and the trend reverses, and we judge them as sexual creatures first and other species second. In fact adding breasts as a "sexual" cue to a lot of species is most likely counter productive to people playing them.

Another thing to consider are that there are different reasons for playing. Escapism is a major reason for playing. Some play women while men, because they like the idea, and want to escape from life as a man. They want to be an attractive woman of course. Some women carry their negative self image into the game, and want to be the attractive person they don't feel they are in real life, so they too will want to be an attractive woman. Some are sick of life as a human entirely, including our appearance standards, they won't want to play anything human at all, but they still want the picture to look good.

The reason I emphasize on the appearance of females, is males can play anything from big orcish lummox and not be bothered by it being ugly, and thanks to half-orcs they ignore that there are female orcs entirely. You'll also notice, that in almost all cases a half-orcs parentage is orc father, human mother, unless purposely trying to be different. We need to stay away from overtly human sexual cues with anything that won't look attractive to our eyes with them. Males are taught their worth comes from action, that enough money and skill can get them any women regardless of looks and are taught to judge women by appearances. For women, our looks matter a lot more than many of us like to admit, and few of us are going to play something so overtly ugly by our standards of beauty. Now is something falls outside our standards of beauty entirely by being in a whole different category of appearance, it will be judged separately because the sexual cues are lacking.

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5 years ago  ::  May 16, 2008 - 1:46PM #12
arderkrag
Date Joined: Jul 18, 2007
Posts: 3,875

defender_of_odintyr wrote:

So the art preview has these new Shadar-Kai.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/art_p … 4853_0.jpg

they can be sen at the above link. Does anyone like them or their art? We already had Drow and Teiflings but now these guys? I looked at them and was under the impression that some of the new humanoid races have taken a turn for the Exalted.

I don't know. I just saw them and I don't like them so I was just wondering what everyone else thought.


Meh. Don't like the art, but the creature as a race in D&D is fine by me.

The Faerytale will be told. The only question is - will you play a part?
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5 years ago  ::  May 16, 2008 - 4:21PM #13
pigknight
Date Joined: Sep 28, 2007
Posts: 20,935
So Shadark-Kai are core now? Cool, emo goths are a good way to attract people to DnD (you know who you are).
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5 years ago  ::  May 16, 2008 - 7:30PM #14
The_Stray
Date Joined: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 1,273
One of the most memorable encounters I ran in our 3.5 game happened when the party got stranded on the Plane of Shadow thanks to making a bet with a demon (long story). Of course, I had already sort of made the Plane of Shadow a lot like the Shadowfell by combining it with the ethereal plane and calling it the Ghostlands, but I digress. The party got mixed up with the Shadar-Kai, whom I portrayed as decadent hedonists willing to give just about anything a try to stave off the killing apathy they suffered from. Naturally, the party got...involved with a few of them, and a great time was had by all, because it was clear that while the Shadar-Kai were not actively evil, they were certainly amoral and weren't above taking their entertainment from the party in any way they wanted to, which made for great tension.

So seeing the Shadar-Kai back and the changes to the Shadowfell are very welcome, because I enjoyed using them so much and really, it's not all that different from what I had before.

Jan 16, 2012 -- 2:11PM, OleOneEye wrote:

What I find most frustrating about 4E is that I can see it includes the D&D game I've always wanted to play, but the game is so lathered in tatical combat rules that I have thus far been unable to coax the game I want out.



When the Cat's a Stray, the Mice will Pray

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5 years ago  ::  May 16, 2008 - 8:07PM #15
Dragoloth
Date Joined: Jan 3, 2005
Posts: 404
I liked them in 3.5 and I like them now. But then I really like peircings and tatoos.
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5 years ago  ::  May 16, 2008 - 11:08PM #16
Valdrax
Date Joined: Dec 9, 2006
Posts: 1,571

defender_of_odintyr wrote:

I looked at them and was under the impression that some of the new humanoid races have taken a turn for the Exalted.


You know, I didn't make the Abyssal Exalted connection before now.

I'm not big on the Shadar-Kai. They don't exactly have the "traction" that WotC thinks they do as far as I'm concerned. They were just an obscure MM fey race that got made into a self-cutting goth kid race. They're the only thing that detracts from what fluff we've seen of the Raven Queen so far.

Also, my first thought from seeing the latest picture was, "Oh no, you did not just rip off Ivy's whip-sword.. thingy."

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5 years ago  ::  May 17, 2008 - 12:21AM #17
xXOblivionXx
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 57
Although the Shadar-Kai as a concept are awesome, the art looks bland and uninteresting, unlike those picture that look awesome:
Spoiler: Show


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5 years ago  ::  May 17, 2008 - 12:24AM #18
Kensan_Oni
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2005
Posts: 4,560
You know, with all the monsters I prefer to use, and even create... these never even blipped on the radar. A CR 1 humanoid... did I really need another one? It was useful as a plot hook, but I wasn't about to start a new campaign for it.

While I know that some people have the love for them, I don't need another weirdo humanoid race. I got goblinoids, I got the Gensai, I got the Warforged, I got half a dozen other things. I just don't need a spiked chain weilding race. I just don't.
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5 years ago  ::  May 17, 2008 - 4:12AM #19
Krauser_Levyl
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 42

xXOblivionXx wrote:

Although the Shadar-Kai as a concept are awesome, the art looks bland and uninteresting, unlike those picture that look awesome:

...


xXOblivionXx, you forgot this picture from Worlds & Monsters:

Spoiler: Show




I don't understand... All shadar-kai pictures from the previews were awesome... The description of the shadar-kai on Worlds & Monsters is awesome (for those who haven't read it, yes, they are far more than "goth humans")

So, WHY THE MM WILL HAVE SUCH A HORRIBLE PICTURE?

They could just have used the same pics from the other previews...
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5 years ago  ::  May 17, 2008 - 5:02AM #20
xXOblivionXx
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 57
That picture is awesome, how could I have not seen it before?!
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