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Solos?
2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 6:33PM #11
AaronOfBarbaria
Posts: 2,878
Date Joined: 09/25/07

pigknight wrote:

Beholder Eye of Flame.


care to explain what that elite has to do with this conversation about solo monsters?

Careful, man.  That much logic might be illegal on the internet. - Salla
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 6:48PM #12
dirtyfrank
Posts: 22,129
Date Joined: 09/08/07
The level 4 solo worth 875 is only a level 2 encounter for a six person group of level three. So the solo was in fact an easy encounter by design. The solo's make him more challenging but they should keep PCs away from him and flank casters who have the ability to daze. If the casters are surrounded they don't have time to daze people.

He still gets one action which he could use to attack. You could also give the solo an attack where he makes a double attack. Many creatures have an ability. So even if they do daze the solo he can still use an action to make a few attacks and deal lots of damage.

The solo does get a +5 bonus to saving throws and they are made at the end of the solo's turn. All though the dazed effect in question was not one that ends by save but one that ends at the end of the attackers next turn.

If he was constantly hit by the attacks that caused daze then his defense may have been too low or the players are just good at rolling dice. Remember a solo gets a +2 bonus to three defenses. The solo seems like a brute (already low defenses), and dim witted (so likely low intelligence, wisdom, and charisma). If this is the case then give him a high charisma to boost the will defense.

I noticed you have three strikers in you group and strikers are designed to kill an enemy quick. If the three strikers are able to focus on an enemy they could take it down quicker than the other three are able to. With three strikers in the group it would be more difficult for them to fight a large amount of creatures.
Resident Grouch and Corrupting Influence

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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 7:02PM #13
Titanium_Dragon
Posts: 7,510
Date Joined: 09/26/05
Could you show us the stats for Ox? As was pointed out above, it seems a bit odd that a level 4 solo monster was being hit by every daze attack the party threw at it.

A level 4 solo brute should have on the order of 18 AC and 260 hp or so; a level 3 party can't expect to have an attack roll vs AC of more than +10 (+4 strength, +3 prof, +1 fighter, +1 level, +1 enhancement), and most of the people are looking at more like a 9 or an 8. That means that on the order of 40% or so of their dazing attacks should have missed. Was that the case? Or was there some other factor at play?
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 10:00PM #14
Mavyrk
Posts: 356
Date Joined: 11/26/07
In the future, especially considering you've made the monster, I'd add a power or two that takes advantage of its weaknesses. For example, my DM today was testing the theory of a level 1 solo, but one of the major problems with it was its ability to be knocked prone, which had a key relevence in the fight.

So, in response to this, when he uses this monster in the future, it was suggested that the mob be given something to do when he's affected by the status affect. For instance,

Heavyweight (Immediate Reaction; recharge 4 5 6)
When bossmob falls prone, all creatures within burst 2 of bossmob immediately make a saving throw or fall prone.

It is to that end that if you find yourself using a creature that's particularly vulnerable to one tactic that your players use, or correctly utilize, it may not be that the system itself is broken, but that the solo simply isn't designed to handle that. it's more than possible that 875 XP was not enough for the encounter, because keep in mind, solo or not, that is a strictly easy encounter. It's not difficult for a decent party of competant players to take lhalf a level above them, and given your party seems to be hip to tactical goodness, throw some big beefy solo at him and give him some kind of unique coolness and see how they fare with it.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 10:23PM #15
pigknight
Posts: 19,123
Date Joined: 09/28/07

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:

care to explain what that elite has to do with this conversation about solo monsters?


Its a solo in the back...I hate you.

Resident Furry and One Line Poster

Zombie piggy is eatin' your sigs om nom nom (>*o*)>

Ia Cthulhu!
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 11:17PM #16
runestar
Posts: 3,490
Date Joined: 07/24/04
It is a problem plaguing the 1 BBEG vs a 4-5 member party scenario that has existed since 3e. Essentially, you are out-numbering the foe in terms of actions at a 5-to-1 ratio. It is simply all too easy to find some way of chain-disabling it while piling on the damage. Basically the pitfalls of putting all your eggs into one basket.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 11:21PM #17
Mavyrk
Posts: 356
Date Joined: 11/26/07
That's why solos have action points. :D
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 16, 2008 - 11:52PM #18
WaldoDi
Posts: 46
Date Joined: 07/17/08
A good solo should have decent defenses and have some kind of defensive ability to dodge or avoid rather annoying daily powers which gives every party member +5 to hit him (with combat advantage rogue was hitting on a 2 ). Giving them two attacks a round is a good idea, also attacks that cover an area like burst 1 or 2 to hit everyone beating on it. A free attack on a circumstance once a round is another decent approach as well as minor actions that may daze or whatever a PC for one round. To make a solo memorble give it a really nasty parting attack, nothings better than King Rat the III dropping two party members. Than as the elf ranger starts laughing, his tail shoots out from the well they were fighting him in grabs him by the leg and he goes down too.
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2008 - 6:29AM #19
Thaos52002
Posts: 67
Date Joined: 11/16/07
Well, I certainly seem to see my mistakes. I stacked two templates to create Ox and then tweaked things a little but I really should have tweaked them a lot. If I had given him some kind of sweeping ax attack so that more than just the paladin would have been getting hit things might have been a bit more interesting and he only had 170 hit points so it sounds like he was a little low. He did have 21 AC however and was still getting hit constantly, but my players could have just been rolling well.

I might need to reevaluate my position slightly, probably spend a bit more time on the next Solo I send at them and try to keep some of their powers in mind.

Incidentally, I like the power mentioned above where a monster falling prone knocks others prone. That has some great cinematic value.

Thanks for the input!
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2 years ago  ::  Jul 17, 2008 - 7:55AM #20
dirtyfrank
Posts: 22,129
Date Joined: 09/08/07
One thing to think about is that most (maybe all) solos have two to three basic attacks and one power that allows them to use each attack as a standard action. A white dragon has an ability to make two claw attacks and if it hits with both, on the same target, the dragon can also make a bite attack. You could also give it a power that is an immediate reaction to an effect/attack that causes daze. It can be something like a free attack or something. Or give the monster a defense bonus on certain type of will attacks.
Resident Grouch and Corrupting Influence

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I'm Black and Blue how 'bout you?
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