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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 7:16AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2003
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I love the idea and implementation (so far) of minions. I can imagine running an enounter with nothing but minions. It poses an interesting choice in the players: fight, or run? My group never runs, though...
Now, since minions now officially have 1 hit point, how do damaging auras work with them? If a player manages to get an aura that deals 1 point of damage, does the group suddenly become immune to melee minions?
Also, does ongoing damage that resulted from a miss kill a minion?
Minions only die from taking damage from an attack with a to hit roll, therefore they would be immune to things like auras and ongoing damage.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 7:19AM
#42
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As much as I like the idea, these two things taken together (being repetitive and too easy) could make it fall flat in some respects. I imagine that after 20 or so minion fights there will be players who start adopting the "we kill them and loot them and move on" list mentality (or I am alone in that my friends are annoying like that sometimes??)
Something you should remember is that you really aren't supposed to have many "minion fights", and especially not back-to-back-to-back minion fights. Minions should be found accompanying a leader or controller type, operating a trap, distracting the party from getting somewhere, etc. Yes, they should be an interesting part of the encounter, but rarely will you want them to be the encounter (aside from the occasional large battle to remind the PCs that they're awesome of course  ). That's something to keep in mind as you design your adventures, since it can seriously affect the pacing while fleshing out otherwise straightforward encounters.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 7:37AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2007
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I dunno - the idea of an epic minion sounds quite contradictory...
In one of the Matrix sequels, Neo goes up against a bunch of epic Agent Smith minions.
I think the movie also illustrates that the occassional minion fight can be awesome, while too much of a good thing can get tiresome.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 8:07AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2008
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Just wanted to say that we should not get caught up in the “Minions FTW” mind set. Before you even get to the minions your probably gonna run into a myriad of slobbering beasties that want to eat your face off.
Not to mention the traps.
Traps that will make your face melt off ala Raiders of the Lost Ark
….just sayin
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 8:16AM
#45
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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So are commoners going to be human minions? That's going to make hostage situations a lot more tetchy.
But I also really like the idea of summonable minions! It's a nice way to remove a lot of creature summoning issues.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 8:17AM
#46
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In one of the Matrix sequels, Neo goes up against a bunch of epic Agent Smith minions.
I think the movie also illustrates that the occassional minion fight can be awesome, while too much of a good thing can get tiresome.
Weren't there attacks 1-hit kills which never miss, though? Not really minions.
It's basically something like Heroic Solo = Paragon Normal = Epic Minion. It's just a funny way of saying "medium-strength monster that hangs around in mobs in Orcus's throne room".
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 8:46AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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To me, minions finally answer the problem of prison guards. Previously, you couldn't have a single rouge incapacitate/kill guards unless the level difference was really high. Now you can have your prisoners guarded by minions when the story calls for it. A single rouge can get at a couple of minions before they have time to call for reinforcements...
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 9:05AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2004
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I think there is some potential design space for two-hit minions. The problem is bookkeeping.
The designers decided that keeping track of any amount of hit points for minions was onerous. One potential solution for that is to have a two-state minion, either they are unhurt or bloodied. In order for them to be killed with one good hit, I'd suggest having a Massive Damage weakness, á la the Chillborn. If they take damage over an appropriate threshold they die in a single hit. Keeping track of whether a particular minion has either been hit or not shouldn't be too difficult.
Unfortunately making this system transparent with the hit point system requires some rejigging. The two-hit minions would need 2 hit points and an ability that reduced damage to 1. Bleah, inelegant.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 9:11AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2006
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I think there is some potential design space for two-hit minions. The problem is bookkeeping.
The designers decided that keeping track of any amount of hit points for minions was onerous. One potential solution for that is to have a two-state minion, either they are unhurt or bloodied. In order for them to be killed with one good hit, I'd suggest having a Massive Damage weakness, á la the Chillborn. If they take damage over an appropriate threshold they die in a single hit. Keeping track of whether a particular minion has either been hit or not shouldn't be too difficult.
Unfortunately making this system transparent with the hit point system requires some rejigging. The two-hit minions would need 2 hit points and an ability that reduced damage to 1. Bleah, inelegant.
Actually, the designers thought that minions with HP would be fine. The -playtesters- decided that it was onerous, and raised up a great hue and cry, and lo, the developers didst say "Look upon our fix!" and the playtesters saw that it was good.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 9:14AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2004
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Minions only die from taking damage from an attack with a to hit roll, therefore they would be immune to things like auras and ongoing damage.
Untrue. Look back at Minions article. It says minions don't take damage from a miss, they still take damage from effects that do not require an attack roll.
I suspect that attack-less damaging auras and ongoing damage on a miss are unlikely to be seen as PC abilities. Abilities like the Pit Fiend's Aura of Fire are likely to be rare even in the monster realm.
Also, ongoing damage is arguably still damage and therefor may be exempt from being inflicted on a miss.
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