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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 11:24PM
#21
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Sure, there might be exceptions I guess. If a DM wants to throw a pack of 20 minions at their PCs they're welcome to do so, but they should be aware that the fight will get repetitive.
I personally suspect that almost any of those all-minion ideas would still be pulled off better if there was a Controller(Leader) regular monster or some sort of elite hanging around with the minions though.
Absolutely, I totally agree. There could be some truly wicked combinations of various types of minions and controllers / leaders. I can't wait.
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 11:48PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
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I'd like to point out that orc minions suck to fight if there is an eye of grummsh. All those extra attacks? sheesh!
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 12:27AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I was expecting the summoned devils to have like 25-50 hp each or something. I suppose the other stats (attacks, Defenses, etc.) are about what I expected. I heard so many people talking about only using Irrestistable Command on Devils that were weak on hit points. So much for that! 
1 hit point is the lynch pin in the minions mechanics. There supposed to to effective for there level put drop with one punch. They are the hordes manipulated and complementing other devils within in their tier.
Minions are just one more reason I anticipate DMing DnD 4e!
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 12:45AM
#24
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Really, really need to see a mid 20's PC at this point. We have almost all the pieces of a Pit Fiend fight, but no PCs to compare to. Also note the wording on Irresistible Command:
Ranged Irresistible Command (minor 1/round; at-will) • Charm, Fire
Range 10; affects one allied devil of lower level than the pit fiend; the target immediately slides up to 5 squares and explodes, dealing 2d10+5 fire damage to all creatures in a close burst 2. The exploding devil is destroyed.
All creatures, automatic damage. Unless they've changed the wording IC would blow up all Legion Devils in a 5 square cube (2d10+5 fire = 16 damage average, more than the Epic Legion Devil's 15 Fire Resist)
In all practice, due to their vulnerability, the Legion Devils in the Pit Fiend fight really are nothing but rabble that is best used by hanging at the edge waiting to get blown up.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 1:21AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2008
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[FONT="Palatino Linotype"]I'd say minions have the potential to be very interesting and fun, yet I'm also rather worried they'll be so easily dispatched that they'll have very little impact during a fight at all, making encounters too easy -- instead a DM may receive more mileage out of using just normal monsters?
It's hard to say without the books on hand or the experience of play, though. [/FONT]
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 1:21AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2007
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Minions rock!!!
I can picture it now - the PCs swarmed by hordes of mooks, slaying to the left of 'em, smiting to the right! Oh, the humanity. Oh,the Arnie-esque one-liners. Oh, the fun!
Playing Scales of War 
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 3:18AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2007
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One thing bothers me about minions - miniatures.
Managing such numbers of creatures without them might be painful. Hoping you get the right minion in a booster pack might be painful as well.
Minion miniatures should be sold in packs with like four or five of them inside.
That way or another, miniatures lovers are screwed.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 3:40AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2005
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I actually really like the looks of the 6th level minion; it seems like they could even be interesting against a first level party, as pretty hefty foes. Yeah, they have glass jaws, but I could totally see an encounter where someone summoned them and siced them on the PCs - five of them plus a first level NPC leader or controller could make for an interesting battle.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 4:14AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Apr 18, 2008
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Also, I notice that the rogue is the one standing out in front in the picture. My money is on her being an artful dodger rogue/shadow assassin with a +5 or so AC bonus against opportunity attacks (those provoked by movement, specifically), that feature that inflicts Dexterity-bonus damage on a creature that fails an attack against her, and the intent to provoke a whole lot of OAs. I have decided I need to play an artful dodger rogue/shadow assassin at some point for that reason alone.
Interesting you should mention that. Last night, we were playing KotS and our rogue got surrounded by minions on the first round of combat. Same tactic. The wizard needed an 11 to hit them with his scorching burst. Lower, and he missed. Higher and he hit the rogue too. It was our first epic moment in 4e because he rolled the 11 and wasted the minions, saving the rogue from a slew of OAs.
[FONT="Palatino Linotype"]I'd say minions have the potential to be very interesting and fun, yet I'm also rather worried they'll be so easily dispatched that they'll have very little impact during a fight at all, making encounters too easy -- instead a DM may receive more mileage out of using just normal monsters?
It's hard to say without the books on hand or the experience of play, though. [/FONT]
Meanwhile the other minions in the group did do their job by sending enough damage at us to make us worry about them. They were easy enough to kill, but there is something to be said for not being able to kill them all before they get their digs in. As a party, we were generally more worried about the bigger guys to focus all of our attacks on taking out the minions first. We had a balancing act, allowing the minions to be effective.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 4:19AM
#30
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Sure, there might be exceptions I guess. If a DM wants to throw a pack of 20 minions at their PCs they're welcome to do so, but they should be aware that the fight will get repetitive.
[FONT="Palatino Linotype"]I'd say minions have the potential to be very interesting and fun, yet I'm also rather worried they'll be so easily dispatched that they'll have very little impact during a fight at all, making encounters too easy -- instead a DM may receive more mileage out of using just normal monsters?
[/FONT]
As much as I like the idea, these two things taken together (being repetitive and too easy) could make it fall flat in some respects. I imagine that after 20 or so minion fights there will be players who start adopting the "we kill them and loot them and move on" list mentality (or I am alone in that my friends are annoying like that sometimes??)
Its a brilliant idea though. My one fix, if it turns out that one-hit kill minion monsters need a fix, would probably be to houserule 'two-hit' and 'three-hit' minions if I wanted to use less minions in a fight without actually reducing combat time. But hey I'm only speculating because the idea inspires thought. I look forward to seeing the implementation of it in the overall big picture after the big release.
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