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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 12:23PM
#461
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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My point is the Worlds and Monsters book states that the City of Brass should be a place adventures can visit. Thus if Efreet are what WotC are calling elementals now, and they live in the City of Brass and PCs can visit it, it isn't "extreme".
The problem is that 1) Not all of them live there. 2) They weren't born in a City of Brass that created itself. These are creatures that were born, lived, and presumably died in the midst of raging elemental fires and eventually civilized themselves to the point of creating the City of Brass.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 1:23PM
#462
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2005
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A creature who thrived here would shrug off fireballes, or even meteor swarms.
And they can. They just can't shrug off things like elder dragon fire, which apparently specifically has the power to damage things which would other wise by immune to it, possibly through some sort of disruptive magical component
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 1:27PM
#463
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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And they can. They just can't shrug off things like elder dragon fire, which apparently specifically has the power to damage things which would other wise by immune to it, possibly through some sort of disruptive magical component
And we know this for a fact? That it takes something as potent as elder dragonfire to overcome them? I'm not saying that I agree that dragon fire is as hot as the sun, but I do want to know exactly what we DO know about elementals and fire.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 3:32PM
#464
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2008
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From the cosmology in W&M it would seem that the elemental creatures we see in the MM are living creatures closely tied to an element and therefore have a resistance to it but aren't immune to it. THe primordials created them as the gods created the mortal races and the PC races aren't immune to radiant or physical damage.
Gone are the classic elementals: constructs of pure element that exist due to a magic summoning or infusion of magical energy into an element. It would be possible to create such elementals again in 4e, just remember they would be closer to being demons as they'd be more interested in destruction than anything and wouldn't be very intellilgent/sentient. These types of elementals would be immune to damage from that type of element and would possibly grow stronger/get healed from it but that would make air elementals unstoppable unless you could encase them in another element and cut them off from all other sources of air.
It sounds from the cosmology that most of the Elemental Chaos isn't "extreme" until you get near the Abyss and chances are only the most powerful of the elemental races venture near there. The demons do seem to gain elemental immunities under certain circumstances so seem the most likely creatures to be encountered in the more "extreme" areas of the Chaos. There's no reason a native to Elemental Chaos is immune to the hazards of the Chaos anymore than a native to the 'Prime' is immune to the hazards of the world. They could be resistant and it seems most of them are from what we've seen so far, but only the most powerful should have immunities.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 3:42PM
#465
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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From the cosmology in W&M it would seem that the elemental creatures we see in the MM are living creatures closely tied to an element and therefore have a resistance to it but aren't immune to it. THe primordials created them as the gods created the mortal races and the PC races aren't immune to radiant or physical damage.
It isn't the same. PC races aren't born to live inside elemental fire, earth, air, and water.
Gone are the classic elementals: constructs of pure element that exist due to a magic summoning or infusion of magical energy into an element. It would be possible to create such elementals again in 4e, just remember they would be closer to being demons as they'd be more interested in destruction than anything and wouldn't be very intellilgent/sentient.
You presume.
It sounds from the cosmology that most of the Elemental Chaos isn't "extreme" until you get near the Abyss and chances are only the most powerful of the elemental races venture near there. The demons do seem to gain elemental immunities under certain circumstances so seem the most likely creatures to be encountered in the more "extreme" areas of the Chaos. There's no reason a native to Elemental Chaos is immune to the hazards of the Chaos anymore than a native to the 'Prime' is immune to the hazards of the world. They could be resistant and it seems most of them are from what we've seen so far, but only the most powerful should have immunities.
The hazards OF the plane ARE the plane. I also would guess that "extreme" is far more powerful than a fireball, which would not be extreme in an elemental fire sense.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 4:25PM
#466
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2005
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And we know this for a fact? That it takes something as potent as elder dragonfire to overcome them? I'm not saying that I agree that dragon fire is as hot as the sun, but I do want to know exactly what we DO know about elementals and fire.
I forget where the exact quote is from, (I think it's W+M) but it says that the dragon's breath "strips away magical resistances"
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5 years ago ::
Apr 24, 2008 - 12:21AM
#467
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2004
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My understanding was that a dragons breath, despite being fire, has a lot of force and energy behind it.
Combined with the way i see a fire elemental, ie a thin skin with seething fire inside and crackling outside, i think the force of the attack splits apart the elementals essence, ie they are unable to hold their physical form and 'pop'.
lesser fire attacks dont have that kind of force.
heat may also play a factor
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5 years ago ::
Apr 24, 2008 - 12:28PM
#468
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2008
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Way too long a thread to read it all, but I figured I would throw this out.
Flame needs oxygen. If another source of flame consumes too much oxygen, then the fire elemental may suffer ill effects from oxygen deprivation.
In an old issue of the Fantastic Four, Diablo created four elementals to fight the FF, and the fire elemental was beaten when the Human Torch used his nova blast to consume all the oxygen in the area, snuffing out the fire elemental.
Just in case no one mentioned this yet.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 5:52AM
#469
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2001
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The hazards OF the plane ARE the plane. I also would guess that "extreme" is far more powerful than a fireball, which would not be extreme in an elemental fire sense.
We don't know that the 4E archons and efreeti live in the hottest corners of the Elemental Tempest, however. Certainly they couldn't live somewhere that's as hot as the sun, for example ... else, they'd need to build their City out of plasma, not Brass.
Just because there are hyper-intense areas of fire in their native plane, doesn't mean that 4E's fire-related creatures live in the hottest places of all. Humans life on a planet that's mostly magma, with blazing hot deserts in several areas, yet we don't live in those.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 9:42AM
#470
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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We don't know that the 4E archons and efreeti live in the hottest corners of the Elemental Tempest, however. Certainly they couldn't live somewhere that's as hot as the sun, for example ... else, they'd need to build their City out of plasma, not Brass.
You couldn't stick brass in a constant fire of any type unless it had magic to sustain it. Since the City of Brass has magic, it could very well be in any part of the plane with fires of any temperature.
Just because there are hyper-intense areas of fire in their native plane, doesn't mean that 4E's fire-related creatures live in the hottest places of all. Humans life on a planet that's mostly magma, with blazing hot deserts in several areas, yet we don't live in those.
Um, we DO live in the deserts, and have for thousands of years. Further, your example of the earth and the magma, that's just lame. Your example is the same as saying that these fire elementals that live in the plane of elemental chaos which is mostly water, air, and earth don't live there. It's pointless to point out where they DON'T live when those places have nothing to do with them. The only places that are relevent, are the fire portions of that plane, just like the only relevent portion of world is the frigging SURFACE where the humans actually live.
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