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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 9:17AM
#11
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Request 1: No Martial Controllers. At least not until 4e is out and we have a good idea of what arguments for and against martial controllers are valid.
Request 2: No Random Power Sources. Only classes with power sources that WotC has confirmed and adequately described instead of just whatever random impression someone has.
Both of these open up the floor to massive bickering if allowed through.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 10:40AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2007
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Request 1: No Martial Controllers. At least not until 4e is out and we have a good idea of what arguments for and against martial controllers are valid.
Request 2: No Random Power Sources. Classes to power sources that WotC has confirmed and adequately described instead of just whatever random impression someone has.
Both of these open up the floor to massive bickering if allowed through.
Seconded. I wish I was more people, just so I could third, fourth, fifth, and sixth this.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 11:07AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2007
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I don't like the second point.
I would instead say: Use the power sources that are well defined, or make up a new power source from scratch. Essentially, don't say that your power source is "primal" or "shadow" when we're still unsure what that means.
But if you want to make an all new power source of "badass", well, I'd love to see the attempt. It's not like you're going to waste your time when the official "badass" power source comes out.
—fo diggity
Twitter: www.twitter.com/fodigg
Comic Books You Should Have Read: http://tinyurl.com/ycxe9l7
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 11:12AM
#14
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 3:45PM
#15
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I would instead say: Use the power sources that are well defined, or make up a new power source from scratch. Essentially, don't say that your power source is "primal" or "shadow" when we're still unsure what that means.
I don't especially care for coining new power sources either because those are subject to an equal amount of bickering -- take "Tech" or "Ki," for example. Just think of all the threads dedicated to bickering over whether those two have a place in the game.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 3:49PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2006
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Fourthed.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 7:29PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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But if you want to make an all new power source of "badass", well, I'd love to see the attempt. It's not like you're going to waste your time when the official "badass" power source comes out.
It's already confirmed for the PHBI; they just got the name wrong and got it in their heads to call it "Martial" instead of just calling it what it is.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 8:02PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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the DMG1 is going to contain detailed rules for class creation
evidence pl0x
It's not that I think you're wrong; it's just that I'm really, really hoping you're right and some confirmation would make me a happy lady.
Also, is it just me or is it starting to look like the devs first designed a classless system from the ground up, then created classes within that system to function as the default playstyle as a way to maintain the sacred cow, to please people who enjoy the class system, and to make character creation and balance easier for less experienced players and GMs, while planning to release the classless/custom-class system in the DMG to open up the game to players and DMs that don't like classes or that don't think the multiclassing system goes far enough?
Because the fact that a dev has already gone out and said that the system has been balanced to the point that you could honest-to-goodness play the game classless is strong evidence that, well, it could be done and that they could provide rules for it. There's every reason to believe they'll release the rules sometime--(as long as it's good and retains full functionality, unlike Unearthed Arcana's generic classes) it appeases people who don't like classes or who don't like the multiclassing system while leaving the class system as default for those who do like the class system, so it's having one's cake and eating it too in that regard, and it doesn't really hurt them too badly as far as making new classes goes because they already have eight or so frelling power sources plotted out and because new classes still means new powers and features for the classless characters to use piecemeal.
The biggest risk I see is that they'll keep it in their pockets and not put it in the DMGI, but rather, make it the schtick of the DMGII, because you know a DMGII that contained the full class-creation rubric and full rules for running a classless game would get preorders like nobody's business... and the devs ain't stupid.
Also. I cooked up a paragon path earlier today. I will copypasta it here in just a bit.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 8:11PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2006
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Belladonna5012, it is always refreshing to see that there are in fact other Anon in the world. [/random]
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5 years ago ::
Apr 25, 2008 - 8:51PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2004
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Here it is. The Bruiser, a badly written unarmed/unarmoured junkie paragon path for the fighter. Badly written in the sense of really not-concise language and some slightly complicated features, at least. Spoiler:
Show
Let me take a crack at a paragon path, one that doesn't assume a fisticuffs-happy-feats utopia; deliberately low-fluff at the moment; my apologies if you smell any Clover Studio influence in it, if it's a little wonky or imperfectly written (TOO MANY WORDS is a known problem), or if it's too good or bad:
BRUISER
Requirements: Fighter class, Improved Unarmed Strike feat (possibly Acrobatics as well to "justify" the unarmoured AC; scale armour proficiency might actually make sense as a requirement on the mechanical level just to keep a character from grabbing a fighter multiclass feat and taking bruiser as their paragon path for the "easy" AC bonus)
Bare-Knuckled Assault and Impregnable Defense (11th level): (Two features, but they're two halves of a whole--they could be folded together under one name if you wanna get all nitpicky--and the paragon path article specifically used the words "at least" with regards to the number of features granted at 11th level.) You are considered nonproficient in any armour heavier than cloth, with any melee weapon but unarmed strikes, or any shield. You may immediately retrain out of any feats invested in melee weapon, shield, or armour proficiency (except, depending, scale); feats that provide benefits that only apply to melee weapons other than unarmed strikes, armour heavier than cloth, or shields; and powers that require melee weapons other than unarmed strikes, armour heavier than cloth, or shields. When unarmed with two empty and available hands (a hand being used to grapple the opponent being attacked is considered available for this purpose), a bruiser's unarmed strikes are considered a two-handed weapon, have a proficiency bonus of +2, and have a d12 damage die. If the bruiser has only one free hand or no free hands (a bruiser can use other body parts to attack even with both hands full), or while using a power that requires two melee weapons, the bruiser's unarmed damage die drops to d8. Additionally, when wearing cloth or no armour, a bruiser receives the better of a +7 bonus to AC that overlaps (does not stack with) their Dexterity/Intelligence bonus or a +3 bonus to AC that stacks with their Dexterity/Intelligence bonus.
Iron Fist (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you also add one-half your level to the damage dealt by any of your standard action unarmed strikes this turn.
Death Grip (16th level): Any enemy in a grapple with a bruiser takes damage equal to the bruiser's Str bonus when the grapple begins and every round thereafter at the beginning of the bruiser's turn, in addition to any other damage or effects of the grapple.
Suplex Bruiser Attack 11
You grip your enemy in both hands and flip them back over your head, slamming them into the ground behind you.
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement: Both of your hands must be empty and available (or already grappling the target).
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex (could be Fortitude instead)
Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage. The target is immediately relocated to the square on the other side of you, directly across you from its original position, and prone.
Tough as Nails Bruiser Utility 12
Your comrades all wince as you take a horrific blow in the gut, one that should have killed you--but remarkably, you suck it up and stay on your feet.
Daily * Martial
Immediate Interrupt Personal
Trigger: An attack hits you and the damage rolled would reduce you to 0 or less HP.
Effect: The damage from that attack is cut in half. If this is still enough to reduce you to 0 or less HP, you instead remain standing with one hit point left.
Dragon Kick Bruiser Attack 20
You kick your opponent into outer space, then perform a goofy victory dance.
Daily * Martial, Weapon, Absurd
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement: This attack must always be performed with an unarmed strike.
Target: One unfortunate creature
Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage and the enemy is kicked into a random other plane regardless of ceilings or other obstructions (if you do not use other planes, the enemy is just kicked into outer space).
Effect: You (the player) may get up and perform a goofy victory dance, and if you choose to do so, you gain an action point.
...I only wish.
Knockout Punch Bruiser Attack 20
You slug your opponent square in the jaw so hard it takes them off their feet.
Daily * Martial, Weapon, Actual Bruiser Daily
Standard Action Melee weapon
Requirement: This attack must always be performed with an unarmed strike.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Strength modifier damage and the enemy is knocked prone.
Secondary Attack: Strength vs. Fortitude. If successful, the enemy makes a saving throw. On a failure, they are unconscious.
Effect: You regain your second wind if you have already used it during this encounter.
Bruiser-related feats:
Improved Impregnable Defense
Prerequisites: Paragon, Impregnable Defense paragon path feature, Dex 13 or Int 13
Your AC bonus from the Impregnable Defense feature improves by +1.
Improved Bare-Knuckled Assault
Prerequisites: Paragon, Bare-Knuckled Assault paragon path feature
When making an unarmed strike that is considered a two-handed weapon, your unarmed strike has the high crit property. When making an unarmed strike that is not considered a two-handed weapon, your damage increases from d8 to d10. Design notes: Spoiler:
Show
The purpose of the first ability is, of course, to completely replace armour and weapons with unarmoured AC and unarmoured strikes. The fighter is balanced around scale armour and military weapons, so I gave it an AC bonus, unarmed strike proficiency bonus, and unarmed strike damage consistent with these things. Because the two core build options for the fighter are likely to be sword-and-board and two-handed, and I wanted to encourage the bruiser to dispense with shields just like swords and armour and instead go for a two-fisted assault, I gave it the ability to use its unarmed strikes as a two-handed weapon specifically to reward it for fighting with no weapon and no shield, to keep its damage on par with other no-shield fighters, and to make it compatible with at least one existing fighter build option. The reasoning behind the specific way I implemented the AC bonus--+7 AC overlapping Dex/Int or +3 AC stacking with Dex/Int--was to keep its AC consistent with normal fighters. It can get by without a high Dexterity or Intelligence just like normal fighters (fluff: not every bruiser started out lightning-fast, but their training is as focused on overcoming limitations as anything), but a bruiser with a high Dexterity or Intelligence shouldn't suddenly find themselves getting less AC than they would have gotten from wearing hide and keeping their Dex/Int bonus to AC, and +7 AC plus stacking with Dex/Int would've been broken.
The action point feature? Just felt right for a paragon path that's all about punching things in the face and doing it horrifically hard. From a balance standpoint, it's a slightly nerfed version of the warpriest action point feature, so no overpoweredness here.
The level 16 feature? Just seemed to make sense, and made use of "I fight with both hands empty!" in a logical and flavourful way (it makes it way more convenient to grapple stuff).
The suplex is there to make use of the empty hands from a fluff and flavour standpoint, as well as to give it a very defendery utility--its optimal use is to move an enemy harassing one of your allies from that ally's immediate vicinity and put that enemy on the other side of yourself, meaning it either fights you or eats OAs getting back to your friend.
The utility? Just thought it sounded nifty and flavourful and suited to someone crazy enough to fight dragons and devils and stuff with fistimacuffs--and it suits someone who's supposed to be tough, and, well, a defender. It might be a little overpowered compared to other paragon utilities, or it could be a little underpowered, or, who knows, it could be just right.
The daily? The chance for an instant KO could be a little overpowered... or, considering it's a level 20 paragon path daily power, maybe I nerfed it a little too much in putting it behind three rolls, the last one probably having about a 20% chance of success against the really tough enemies, even if it it starts out with a 3[W] damage effect. But I like the flavour, at least somewhat.
The feats? Seemed about right from a balance standpoint, considering other fighters can spend a feat to get plate armour or to upgrade to a superior weapon, and that's kind of what these feats do. (Sure, plate has fewer restrictions than an unarmoured AC bonus, but it also doesn't take a paragon path feature to get.) That, and Improved Impregnable Defense lets a bruiser snag a little somethin' somethin' for having a decent Dexterity or Intelligence without having to have one of them at 18+, which from a flavour standpoint makes sense for a path relying on its own abilities to dodge stuff.
Belladonna5012, it is always refreshing to see that there are in fact other Anon in the world. [/random][/quote]
I'm not really an Anon. I just randomly eat memes.
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