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dark080matter wrote:

Not to detract from the great ideas being bounced around here in any way, but I'd like to shake up the debate with a possibility that has gotten I think surprisingly little traction on the forums for the Martial Controller.

I believe you have missed the point--see the controller definition. This fails for the same reason that a monk controller is untenable.

PatGib wrote:

dark080matter--
I've been playing your 'dragoon' since 3.0. I love pole arms. I love the versatility. I think you may be onto something....

marius4]dark080matter--
Thank you! Thank you! Omg, thank you! Yes.

Thanks so very much guys! :rofl: that my off-the-cuff attempted implementation of someone else's idea would be received so well (I'm sorry I forgot who first suggested it, or in what thread, but if you're reading now you deserve all the credit for making me think)

@Kobu:
I've seen a lot of the arguments against a Monk as Controller, and I understand many of them are well-founded. However, I would like to suggest that through the right implementation, a class like the dragoon could make an effective Controller. While I'm certainly no-one to tell the Wizards designers what their roles do/don't mean, my purpose in fleshing out this class was, rather than to duplicate the effects of a Wizard (which for good or ill is now stuck in many people's minds as the absolute template for what a Controller does) and instead I thought about all the other ways that the 'problem' of control could be attempted.
For example, rather than obliterating a clustered group of Kobolds with a Fireball, maybe the Martial controller uses a Utility power that lets him instantly react to the Kobold attack and destroys the others with a cone-shaped Dervish maneuver? Or rather than drop a cloud/wall that limits enemy movement, the Martial controller puts himself in that area, shredding any approaching minions with opportunity attacks? In my mind, all the other suggestions are wonderful, but they do not indicate a Martial character, one who relies on extensive training, the unleashed raw forces of the human body, inner guts, and a powerful sword(err.. Spear)-arm to destroy those foolish enough to cross his path. Whenever I, personally, attempt to apply that template of a Martial means to the end of the 4e Controller role... well, nothing at all very similar to the way a Wizard goes about his business comes to mind.

At any rate, until you offer a more specific concern, I'm not too sure how specific my answer can be.



Finally, as you can all see the class is really just a messy stream-of-consciousness exploded onto a thread. I haven't made any attempt whatsoever to balance powers by level (although such classifications may be weak until we see a complete 4e class in full, with progression), and there clearly are far too few powers to make a complete 4e class. They were all just off-the-cuff ideas I had. Suggest improvements, powers, and class abilities by all means! Frankly, I'm not too attached to much of the class, and maybe even someone out there can suggest a better name.

Maybe someday, somewhere, a DM is going to think it's a pretty neat idea to have this class in his All-Martial homebrew.... :)

Perhaps I should just make another th wrote:

Wizardmon wrote:

dark080matter- I think your idea of a Martial Controller is going to be the one that works the best. However, if I may, I would like to improve/expand upon the ideas you presented in your Dragoon class. Firstly, I would like to suggest that the class be proficient with nets like some gladiators used to dominate the arena (I heard there was a special name for them...).

I'm going to re-fill the powers you posted so that they match the format of the previewed powers and edit them how I see fit :D. Feel free to use these in your class writeup, should you like them.

I think two things are important to note here. One, I don't think that having metal armor is a good choice for a controller, at least conceptually. Secondly, if you want to reduce the range of your abilities and replace it with damage, that might be an interesting choice.

Ack! You just had to bring up the armor... I will definitely have to grant you that going far beyond Cloth is an unusual choice for the Controller. My idea was that this is quite an unusual (almost mid-front line) Controller, but for pragmatism's (and balance's..) sake I think you're quite right on this one. It has now been changed appropriately in the post.

Also, you win on the powers, I'll definitely use your pretty syntax for it in replacement of my scrawl... if you can work the others out similarly I will be quite grateful :D

Ah yes, thank you so much for suggestions on the skills! I was of course too lazy to try to work that one out.... :rolleyes:

As for Nets... well the mechanics on those just sound like a huge ball of wax that I have no idea how to approach... they are thrown weapons perhaps... but how to stat them and make them interact with powers is beyond my powers at this time of night.

Thanks for the help and keep the suggestions coming! Check the link in my sig to see the progress we're making :P