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Now i could be way off base here, but would an acceptable martial controller be something along the lines of an alchemist or a gadgeteer, as someone who uses thier own skills and abilities without it coming from an ouside sorce such as arcane divine ect

just a thought

I too share a love for Eberron's Artificer. However, the problem with classes like this is that characters who require items to work either use obscene amounts of magic, or require a lot of out of combat time to prepare. Truth be told, however, even if they could manage both these things, I am not sure how much I would enjoy it. A Controller is basically Wizard modified for another power source, and I don't quite see how an Alchemist, Gadgeteer, or Artificer would be able to handle this and still be considered Martial. :/

sorcererscott86 wrote:

Well considering that all classes will be able to do amazing and extraordinary things that may seem magical even if they are not, i do not believe that a martial alchemist/gadgeteer is out of the realm of possibility for 4 ed. Things that fighters and other non-magical classes will be able to things deemed quite impossible for their 3.5 equivalents. Certainly there would be room for a non-magical class that is nevertheless mechanically/alchemically savvy enough to create amazing gadgets/formulas that do extraordinary things. Just my 2 cents.

It is my opinion that Item Magic and Alchemy are poorly defined fields of magic, however, I do think that they are less Martial and more Arcane. Yes, a Fighter will get magic (and yes, it is magic)... but not in the sense of "I cast Fireball!" And while I think that a Fighter should be able to make magical weapons, I do not think that the sort expertise that would allow you to be a Warlord, Rogue, or Ranger would also give you the insight to become a person who can create a Rod that can shoot fire.

Or an archer, with more controllery-based ranged powers than the ranger...

I'm not at all denying that item magic/alchemy seems to be more arcane than martial. I am a big fan of 3.5 arcane spellcasters. I just hope that item creation in general becomes open to more classes in 4 ed., not just the "spellcasters". However, just because something feels magical, does not mean that it is magical. Technology can often seem magical. Alchemist fire and its ilk may seem magical, but they can certainly be explained without having to resort to "A wizard did/made it." While this may not fit within the framework of medieval fantasy roleplaying game, I think that some kind of mechanically savvy class is not out of the realm of possibility.

The biggest concern with a character like this is, of course, the downtime, which 4 ed. is supposed to be reducing. *sigh* Oh well, looks like my dreams of a martial style alchemist are will simply remain dreams. Perhaps a paragon path will become available?