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5 years ago ::
May 22, 2008 - 2:19PM
#731
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2007
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QFT
There is a term for a character who is superior in every way:
Higher Level.
This is an excellent point. If you want a BBEG Spellcaster to horribly overshadow the group in power, make him higher level.
The only purpose of game balance between classes is to make all the PCs equal. The PC wizard can be the lowly adventuring mage who's out there cutting his teeth on the world while the super-uber-arch mages of the world hang around in towers and spend their idle time being much more impressive than you.
You can maintain the impression of acane superiority by simply not having high level martial NPCs.
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5 years ago ::
May 22, 2008 - 2:53PM
#732
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2006
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wow... that hurts... now I don't want to play the wizard in 4e.. 
No one in Harry Potter rained down fire from the sky, period. For the record, that's one of the at will powers that Wizard has, dropping fire on people. At first level. It's actually pretty sweet.
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5 years ago ::
May 22, 2008 - 2:59PM
#733
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2007
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No one in Harry Potter rained down fire from the sky, period. For the record, that's one of the at will powers that Wizard has, dropping fire on people. At first level. It's actually pretty sweet.
still if the wizard can't specialize I really don't want to play one cause I like having about 9 or so kobolt skeletons following me around (after getting strong enough to do so) :D
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5 years ago ::
May 22, 2008 - 3:35PM
#734
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2005
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I'm a bit reluctant to contribute to all this silliness, but against my better judgment, my $.02:
There are plenty of examples in Myth and Fantasy of Fighter-types that are at least equal to in power, and defeat magic-types. Heracles is probably the most obvious. Gligamesh, Odysseus, Theseus, Beowulf, Lugh. . . and for a more modern example, take a look at the Prince in the Disney version of Cinderella. Pick your mythos, you can probably find at least a couple.
But I see nothing wrong with running a "Magic Dominant" campaign, where those who cast spells and use other magiks are more powerful than those who do not, if that is your wont. This certainly replicates *some* fantasy/myth settings.
However, from a game mechanics standpoint, I think it make far more sense for characters of a given level to be of roughly equal power. That is, a 10th lvl Wizard's overall abilities are roughly equal to those of a 10th lvl fighter. Different strengths and weaknesses, to be sure. Level = Power is just an easier concept to follow.
As already suggested, this makes creating a "Magic Dominant" campaign very easy. Simply limit the progression of fighters to a certain level. If fighters and other martial types can't advance past 5th level, higher-level wizards are eventually going to dominate.
You can either (a) keep XP progression even, and simply have the marital types stop at 5th level, or (b), adjust the XP levels necessary to advance, so that a Fighter will reach 5th level about the same time a Wizard reaches 30th.
Myself, I wonder why you'd want to play a campaign like this. I forsee parties of Wizards and Warlocks. . .
And I strongly suspect the vast majority of D&D players, as I, would prefer a game mechanic where a Xth lvl fighter and a Xth lvl Wizard are roughly equally important to the party. So it's not at all surprising to me that WotC went this way with their game design.
But if Magic Dominant works for you and your players, then by all means go for it; it really shouldn't take all that many adjustments to core to implement.
Cheers,
EQ17
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5 years ago ::
May 26, 2008 - 4:52PM
#735
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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The king of Aquilonia kinda defeats this whole thread.
Hell, Conan defeats wizards like they were lvl0 townsfolk.
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5 years ago ::
May 26, 2008 - 5:09PM
#736
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Date Joined:
Apr 17, 2008
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Our wizard last night just racked up kill after kill after kill. Mostly minions mind you but quite frankly minions are nothing to laugh at. So yes yes I do feel the wizard is adequate. Especially since now he can just keep casting, and all of his spells can crit.
The Fighter's job is to hold monster attention and beat things down that need beating. He does this very well
The Rogue is a high damage to single target /maneuver into best position and then obliterate said target. He does this very well.
The Wizard's job is to eliminate large swaths of enemies and do some damage to the 'boss fight' as well. He does this very well.
See a pattern forming?
The death of the wizard walking into the room full of 20th level fighters and killing every single one of them and still having more than half of his spells remaining for the day? Yes. THAT archetype is dead. and good riddance.
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5 years ago ::
May 26, 2008 - 8:14PM
#737
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Date Joined:
Aug 15, 2007
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Our wizard last night just racked up kill after kill after kill. Mostly minions mind you but quite frankly minions are nothing to laugh at. So yes yes I do feel the wizard is adequate. Especially since now he can just keep casting, and all of his spells can crit.
The Fighter's job is to hold monster attention and beat things down that need beating. He does this very well
The Rogue is a high damage to single target /maneuver into best position and then obliterate said target. He does this very well.
The Wizard's job is to eliminate large swaths of enemies and do some damage to the 'boss fight' as well. He does this very well.
See a pattern forming?
Shouldn't everyone have a chance to really shine at the boss fight? That's the fight everyone will remember, after all. And from what admittedly little I have seen of minions, I don't think any class will feel threatened by them, even in mobs.
I really like wizards, they are my favorite class, but for 4E I think I'll have to switch to warlocks to get my monies worth in terms of combat.
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5 years ago ::
May 26, 2008 - 8:21PM
#738
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Date Joined:
Apr 17, 2008
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Actually if you ignore minions they -will- kill you. They -are- a threat. That 1hp is deceiving The wizard does shine at the boss fight. For the most part when you are fighting 'bosses' they have lots of minions and or lackeys and quite frankly no one does area of effect like him.
not even close.
the thing to remember as well with the wizard is we have only seen him at low level. He's not exactly -crap- in melee like he used to be. (read not as good as anyone else in melee but he's not like he was in 3e aka totally helpless)
The wizard's job is to take out the enemies that would otherwise simply over run everyone (and trust me monsters can do that even minions.)
The wizard does just as much damage against a single target at least at low level or possibly more without going into encounter or dailies.*unless the fighter blows a daily or an encounter power. the rogue does the most but he's got his own problems* while staying safe from the worst of the attacks (usually)
the other thing to note is that against normal monsters (read better than minions but not elites) they do a fairly good job at locking them down as well.
Sleep is a good example of a very very nice spell at level 1 in 4e. (the new sleep can do so much more for you. )
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5 years ago ::
May 26, 2008 - 9:58PM
#739
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Yeah, just wait 'till you get a swarm of minions on you, the damage output of 4 minions is actually a LOT higher than a standard monster of their level. If you can't deal with them fast, they'll rip you apart (a group of Kobold minions surrounding a defender will almost always hit due to their attack bonus).
You should try the Orc minions too. Combined with their leader-type they can slaughter parties who aren't careful.
Minions are arguably the most offensively powerful type of monster, what they lack is staying power. If you use them well, your PCs will fear them =)
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 5:07AM
#740
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I like my wizards to have risky tempermental power.
Oh sure that wizard can do way more damage than that fighter, but least the fighter doesn't have to worry about things going veery very wrong or running out of sword.
Course that be wizard in my perfect world.....
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