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3E psionics isn't unbalanced as a whole. There are certainly specific abuses which can come up, and it has terrible "5 minute workday" potential due to the ease of going nova, but the system in general is about right *if* you're dealing with the design expected four encounters. (If you're not - if you have one encounter and you're done, the nova potential does start to light up the "Tilt" sign, though.)

The sense of it being unbalanced seems to mainly come from its 2E incarnation, where it definitely was a problem in terms of game balance. The decision to push the "psionics is totally different than magic and ignores magical protections!" line meant that you either had to structure the whole campaign around it (and providing ways to resist it), or the psionic PC could just walk all over everything.

It was so horrendous in that regard that it colored the perception of 3E's version of it for meany people - and admittedly, 3E still left open the "psionics is different!" option as a potential standard, which if used creates some of the same problems all over again. (Not quite as badly due to various system-wide changes between 2E and 3E, but still problematic.)


In terms of it being appropriate to fantasy, this is a problem with the presentation of psionics to date: While the idea of "powers of the mind" is certainly fantasy, psionic powers - especially the mind-affecting ones - have often been written up with "psychobabble" names and power concepts which are either Victorian (especially Freudian) or modern - neither of which mesh well with a fantasy theme.


A problem in all editions is simply that it involves learning an entirely new system which works in a completely different fashion than all of the others and easily has you page-flipping trying to find out this or that.


Now, 4E looks like it will finally put the last nail in the coffin of the "psionics is totally different and unresistable by anything else!" trope, if only because power source differences seem to be gone generally, and it will presumably work like all of the other power sources do aside from one or two fluff tweaks, but the thematic problem does need to be addressed if it's going to move into the mainstream of the game, because that really seems to be the single biggest barrier to it being acceptable to a lot of people.

Neutronium_Dragon wrote:

In terms of it being appropriate to fantasy, this is a problem with the presentation of psionics to date: While the idea of "powers of the mind" is certainly fantasy, psionic powers - especially the mind-affecting ones - have often been written up with "psychobabble" names and power concepts which are either Victorian (especially Freudian) or modern - neither of which mesh well with a fantasy theme.

I would say it only meshes with traditional medieval fantasy. I know that in most of my fantasy games all the wizard spells and divine spells, etc. Have to be updated to more Victorianesque references to work with my fantasy world.

Hell, I divided up my mages into various sects of Reality-Benders (sorta like Mage: The Ascension) and all their powers came from essentially a psionic source.

While Divine users used, esoteric magic, ley-lines, geomancy, etc.

Many people thus feel they are inappropriate alongside magic, being a watered down version of it, and I'd agree. As such, including it in the core rules would be a mistake, as many people dislike psionics and they are extraneous, accomplishing nothing magic cannot. A psion is just a wizard with fewer cool trappings, and as such the wizard, being included in the core game, superscedes the role.

Except that may not be the case anymore. I think the niche for psionics will be in subtle ways with much more emphasis on mind-control and force then the Wizard has. So it will definitely be its own niche separate and equal to magic.

I think one thing people disliked about psionics was the whole mind-battle thing, it was awesome with psionic parties... But, if your the only psionic in the party and your not facing other psionics then. Not so much fun. If they were able to make this more engaging and interesting for everyone it would work better.

O_Shazbot wrote:

You must be one of those aforementioned fanatics...that's the only possible reason you could be getting so worked up over this crap.

I have never played a psionic character. I've got the XPH, but I've never read it sufficiently to know exactly how the system works. Just not the sort of thing I enjoy using.

And I still get angry reading your posts on the subject.

Psionics are presented in a rather generic fashion. You could use them in a fashion reminiscent of sci fi. That is one viable option. If you want to play a Spelljammer-type game, or have extraplanar intruders (such as illithids) in your fantasy setting, it's perfectly well-suited for that. On the other hand, it can easily be flavored to represent Eastern mysticism, and thus has at least as much of a place in a fantasy setting as, say, the 3.5 PHB Monk.

Now, you're free to ban Psi, and the Monk right alongside it if you like. But making mocking, derisive comments about Psionics, and, by extension, those who like them, is just outright trolling.

O_Shazbot]I'll simply remind you about how despite these arguments, psionics are still not allowed at the majority of game tables.

"Scans, or it didn't happen." Or, in a more common form, how about some proof of your clai wrote: