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Switch to Forum Live View Spells that Need to be Removed From the Game or Significantly Altered
6 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2007 - 4:57PM #51
Endarire
Date Joined: Sep 20, 2002
Posts: 1,799
Perhaps it was the format of my campaign, but I assumed that for most places the party would visit, the owner/master/resident villain had plenty of areas under dimensional lock and antimagic fields, limiting teleport to pretty much outside-only and plot points. Dimension door was unchanged, however.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2007 - 10:07PM #52
Ahglock
Date Joined: Aug 25, 2007
Posts: 800

Stogoe wrote:

Teleport is iconic, yes, but it also has the crazy ability to ruin a planned session like no other.

Not everyone wants to have to resort to 'every BBEG has these 5 spells prepared so the PCs don't auto-teleport in when he's on the john and behead him' kludges.


Does every BBEG have plans for non-magical assaults?

Oh, I don't want to have every BBEG to plan with these 5 spells to defend his lair. But hey traps, walls, roving guards, having a good AC of course its normal that everyone wants to plan for that kind of stuff that would protect against.

Its a magical world when you get powerful enough you attract powerful enemies, and BBEGs need decent defenses for them. I'm not a big fan of mages basically wondering whether they should cast thunderaga or fireaga this round.

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6 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2007 - 10:27PM #53
MerlintheTuna
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2006
Posts: 80

Archtyrant Terevoth wrote:

The main problem with shape-changing exists when it becomes a "Best of both worlds" mechanic where people are taking all the good points of being a giant and keeping their spellcasting and magic items.


To a degree, yes, I agree. I'd argue that the biggest problem with Polymorph is that it doesn't just grow as the PC levels up -- it also grows as the players buy more books. Every spell in the PHB is exactly as powerful by itself as it was when the PHB was printed/errata'd, except for the Polymorph line. And that's a problem.

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6 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2007 - 10:41PM #54
Starcloud
Date Joined: May 1, 2006
Posts: 419
I dunno about you, but I'm pretty strict with Teleport. If you're going off of a verbal description, you're only going to get "False destination" results.

A painting may or may not get you up to "viewed once" but is far more likely to be "False destination." Unless you were the one who created the painting, in which case you're up to "Studied carefully."

Visually sighting on a place, with a telescope or something like that, will be "viewed once" or maybe "seen casually" depending on what you do.

And even with the "very familiar" level, which is usually a carefully prepared space that you've spent hours memorizing, there's still a 3% chance that you're not going to arrive where you want.

Teleport isn't nearly as much of a problem when the DM is taking into account the actual limitations of the spell.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 09, 2007 - 10:42PM #55
meabolex
Date Joined: Apr 22, 2003
Posts: 17
I think a major problem that I've seen is that its really easy to misinterpret or misunderstand the spell. Can we use terminology that is standard among all the spells?

I know some spells suffer from being "carried over" from 2nd to 3rd/3.5 edition (silence comes to mind). A clean rewrite of every spell would be nice.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2007 - 7:28AM #56
Karlindel
Date Joined: Oct 13, 2001
Posts: 13
The Blasphemy/Holy Word spells, for starters. They really need to be changed into something more reasonable. The main problem is that they are useless against big dumb monsters (which tend to have a lot of hit dice relative to CR), and have great effect on monsters with powerful abilities (which tend to have few hit dice relative to their CR). Also, it can just end encounters. In addition, neutral creatures should not be as strongly affected by them as creatures of the opposing alignment. They also reduce design space, because any ability that can raise caster level (particularly temporary ones) is so much more powerful for these spells than any other.

Fly really needs to be cut down in power. The current fly spell should really be higher level, and the third level version should grant a lower fly speed, possibly also with a worse maneuverability.

The Orb spells should really be evocation spells, except for Orb of Acid.

Fireball should be higher level, and/or have a lower range and smaller area of effect. It would still be a good third level spell if it only had a ten foot radius burst, but it would now be possible for the party to spread out so that they aren't all within the area.

Teleport spells can be problematic, but I have not had the problems with it that others have had. I do like the idea of having some fixes in for it, such as limiting it to places the caster himself has been to and prepared. Dimension Door is really the problem, since there is no need to see or even know what is in the place you are going to, and no miss chance, but there are also no rules for what happens if you try to dimension door into a solid wall.

Divination spells in general need to be clarified. The spell Divination is a particular problem, as it is very vague as to what kind of questions are fair game. Find the Path is also ridiculously powerful, allowing the party casting it to bypass any sort of riddles or puzzles that the dungeon might have, and making a high level dungeon into just a major grindfest.

Invisibility is too powerful for its level. In general, spells that obviate the need for skills should be significantly altered. Close Portal is another offender, since it makes it pointless for anyone to ever bother learning to pick locks, since the spell makes picking the lock impossible.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2007 - 8:20AM #57
Clawhound
Date Joined: Feb 1, 2005
Posts: 362
Here's my list:

Rewrite all spells that trump the skills system. Spells should enhance skills, not replace them. Examples include invisibility (sneak), levitate (clim), tongues (speak language), and illusion (bluff).

Spells like levitate and fly must be higher level. They ruin the ground-pounder feel of the game quickly.

Magic Missile needs an attack roll.

Spells such as Mage Armor and Shield are actually character abilities and should be treated as such.

Blindness is permanent. That's a 2nd level spell. No second level spell should be permanent.

Force effects are too perfect. They must be resisitable and breakable.

No spell should replicate class features or feats. Goodbye Tensers and Divine Might.

Open ended spells (such as gate and planar ally) must be regulated. They are too abusable.

Choosing a "school" should be a fun decision for a wizard, and lead to different "feels" for each wizard.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2007 - 11:23AM #58
shok13
Date Joined: Mar 23, 2005
Posts: 362
One word: HOUSERULES!!! If you don't like something, DM your own game and change the rules to match your view of the world, and stop trying to screw everybody else because you don't like x spell so nobody should be able to use it.

I hate wish as a player, many DM's sit around just waiting for some dumb player to cast it so they can screw them, but I want the spell to stay because it just wouldn't be D&D without it.

About the wall of x/fabricate making the material worthless, so then that massive castle a player spent a long time planning for, mapping out, and then the months it took to build is worthless? It seems that the DM's greatest fear is of the characters actually accomplishing anything.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2007 - 12:27PM #59
Galphanore
Date Joined: Sep 23, 2006
Posts: 102

Endarire wrote:

Perhaps it was the format of my campaign, but I assumed that for most places the party would visit, the owner/master/resident villain had plenty of areas under dimensional lock and antimagic fields, limiting teleport to pretty much outside-only and plot points. Dimension door was unchanged, however.


Dimensional Lock blocks Dimension Door.

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6 years ago  ::  Sep 10, 2007 - 12:34PM #60
Moniker
Date Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 35
Time spells used for event-altering needs to be entirely removed from the game, as does Wish and Limited Wish for that matter.

Convenience spells (such as creating food and water, teleport and the like) absolutely need to be bumped up in level.
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