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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 9:45AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2007
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The only problem with spells like teleport is that they don't add the counters to them until some later supplement. I've been suing things like redirect teleport spells for multiple editions to make sure they party can't just teleport to the bad guy after they get a loose description of the lair. Illusion spells to screw with scrying, ranged attacks, flying monsters to deal with flight/overland flight.
Also maybe its just me but yes I preferred the larger negative consequences to a failed teleport or dispelled flight. I know back in 2e I sure as heck didn't teleport blindly, they effectively had fixed locations by making the cost of failure much higher. And by the time the party got to Teleport without error it was much easier to justify the BBEG having false vision spells up and redirect teleport spells up all the time.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 2:46PM
#42
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But here's a question, what story requires teleportation where it can't be replaced by a network of portals?
Ever read Jhereg by Steven Brust? Or any of the follow up books? How about any of the Valdemar related book by Mercedes Lackey? Or the Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffery?
Admittedly teleportation and effective counters are more common in Jhereg. With the way spells and magic items currently work, a Jhereg-esque scenario isn't viable. In Lackey's work teleportation was something that wiped out the caster and they couldn't cast again for hours, sometimes days. It was also effectively a two way portal on demand. And in the Dragonriders of Pern, teleportation was done via dragon.
My point being, there are stories where you can't replace teleport via portals. Frankly, I'd rather D&D steal concepts from Brust and Lackey than go to a portal based system.
As always, your mileage may vary.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 4:29PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2001
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Ever read Jhereg by Steven Brust? Or any of the follow up books? How about any of the Valdemar related book by Mercedes Lackey? Or the Dragonriders of Pern by Anne McCaffery?
Admittedly teleportation and effective counters are more common in Jhereg. With the way spells and magic items currently work, a Jhereg-esque scenario isn't viable. In Lackey's work teleportation was something that wiped out the caster and they couldn't cast again for hours, sometimes days. It was also effectively a two way portal on demand. And in the Dragonriders of Pern, teleportation was done via dragon.
Perhaps I should rephrase the question.
Well I'm not asking about perfectly duplicating those stories exactly, so much as trying to establish a general storyline.
For instance, a plot like: PCs go to Baator, recover some ancient relic of good that's been corrupted, they have to go to Celestia to get it purged of evil taint, then bring it to some location on the prime material where they have to use it to banish a powerful demon lord.
I'm just wondering what kind of storyline you'd possible throw at your PCs would require that they have teleportation and couldn't just be replicated by including relevant portals.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 4:33PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Jun 25, 2001
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I admit that certain spells like PAO are potentially game-breaking, but they are also the very spells that inject so much spice into the game. I mean - some of the more memorable moments of my games were when the players were strutting around polymorphed to their hearts' content.
Is there really no way of reconciling them?
Polymorph powers can exist, just not in such a powerful form. The easiest way to do a polymorph is just to treat it like a summon spell that replaces the caster with a monster. Despite some flaws, The PHB2 poly mechanics do this fairly well. The main problem with shape-changing exists when it becomes a "Best of both worlds" mechanic where people are taking all the good points of being a giant and keeping their spellcasting and magic items. There are also some controls needed to make sure that the forms available aren't too diverse. So a fixed set of forms per spell would be good.
Teleportation is a bit tougher, mainly because it has such far-reaching effects. It's hard to make teleportation work in a way that satisfies everyone.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 7:36PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2004
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Hey I'd be happy if teleport had some limitation, like it only worked outside. No teleporting in on the BBEG while he's taking a bath. No bypassing non-wilderness encounters. Useful for getting around to be sure.
Maybe dimension door wouldn't have that limitation, but only worked within line of sight.
I think knock needs to go, or at least change substantially.
All the long-lasting buffs need to be axed in favor of per encounter or continuously-operating abilities.
The Shadow evocation/conjuration spells (and to some extent illusions in general) lead to a lot of headaches and need to be better defined.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 5:39AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2007
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I feel some spells are potentially overpowered.
My experience would suggest mirror image and stoneskin often dominate a battle.
Stoneskin in 4E should probly be caster only and once per day.
Mirror Image should be caster only and once per encounter.
The list is endless, but I do think the 'per day' 'per encounter' 'at will' system will help quite a lot.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 10:50AM
#47
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2004
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Teleport just needs extra limitations. Teleport is great for higher level play since it means the 18th level PCs can ignore the trip through the Terribly Mediocre Forest fighting 1st level orcs and get straight to the 18th level Fortress of Ultimate Doom. The ranger would have been redundant in the low level forest anyway. (And sure I could put CR 18 monsters in the mediocre forest, but only by straining credulity by having to explain why the nearby village wasn't obliterated).
I've never used Teleport, but Dimension Door saved my friends from (+ me since I cast it) from a burning building.
I love that you can take you + 1/3 caste levels people.
"If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you."
and
"Go beyond the impossible, and kick reason to the curb"
Kamina, from Gurren Lagann
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 1:03PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2007
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Teleport
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Wizard/Sorcerer 30
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Personal and touch
Target: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)
This spell instantly transports you to a designated destination, which may be as distant as 10 feet per caster level. Interplanar travel is not possible. Travel through walls is not possible. You cannot travel anywhere that the DM hasn't considered you going. You cannot travel past obstacles of any kind, including air that the DM regards as plot-centric. Travel beyond the line of sight is not possible. You can't bring any gear, including clothing or even your spellbook. You may also bring one additional willing Medium or smaller creature (carrying no gear) or its equivalent (see below) per three caster levels. A Large creature counts as two Medium creatures, a Huge creature counts as two Large creatures, and so forth. All creatures to be transported must be in contact with one another, and at least one of those creatures must be in contact with you. As with all spells where the range is personal and the target is you, you need not make a saving throw, nor is spell resistance applicable to you. Since objects are not transported by this spell, they automatically pass their saving throws.
You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination. The clearer your mental image, the more likely the teleportation works. Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation 99% probable to kill you and everyone you have ever loved with no save.
To see how well the teleportation works, roll d% and consult the Teleport table. Then roll again until you get an unfavorable result. Refer to the following information for definitions of the terms on the table.
Familiarity
“Very familiar” is a place that you have never left for more than three consecutive rounds “Studied carefully” is a place that you have a DM-approved connection with. “Seen casually” is a place that you have seen more than once but with which you are not very familiar. This includes your bedroom, the town you grew up in, and the spot you are now standing in. “Viewed once” is a place that you have viewed once. Duh.
“False destination” is a place that does not truly exist or if you are teleporting to an otherwise familiar location that no longer exists as such or has been so completely altered as to no longer be familiar to you. Also, the DM may declare any destination he feels like False, just to get a kick out of seeing you explode when you arrive. When traveling to a false destination, you spontaneously combust, because you were obviously trying to go around one of the DM's obstacles.
On Target
You appear where you want to be, but you take damage in the process. How much damage is equal to an arbitrary number the DM sets.
Off Target
You DIE!!!!!!
Similar Area
You wind up in an area that’s visually or thematically similar to the target area.
Generally, you appear in the closest similar place within range. If no such area exists within the spell’s range, the spell simply fails instead.
Mishap
You and anyone else teleporting with you have gotten “scrambled.” You each take 1d10 points of damage, and you reroll on the chart to see where you wind up. For these rerolls, roll 1d20+80. This is the amount of damage you take in addition to the new roll. If you rolled Mishap more than 3 times, you explode in a burst of energy for ruining your poor DM's plot.
Familiarity On Target Off Target Similar Area Mishap
Very familiar 01-97 98-99 100 —
Studied careful 01-94 95-97 98-99 100
Seen casually 01-88 89-94 95-98 99-100
Viewed once 01-76 77-88 89-96 97-100
False Dest — — 81-92 93-100
Sorry, Teleport-Haters. I couldn't resist.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 3:42PM
#49
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Teleport is iconic, yes, but it also has the crazy ability to ruin a planned session like no other.
Not everyone wants to have to resort to 'every BBEG has these 5 spells prepared so the PCs don't auto-teleport in when he's on the john and behead him' kludges.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 4:27PM
#50
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Teleport is iconic, yes, but it also has the crazy ability to ruin a planned session like no other.
Not everyone wants to have to resort to 'every BBEG has these 5 spells prepared so the PCs don't auto-teleport in when he's on the john and behead him' kludges.
It's one of the reasons I mentioned Steven Brust and Jhereg. Admittedly magic is a bit different there. But the concept could be adapted.
Or we could go back to one the features of 2nd level spells. IE: cure/inflict spells were the same, it was how you cast it. So teleport/teleport block could be the same spell, it depends on how you cast it.
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