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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 6:28PM
#321
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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But that's just it, changes could be made to balance them out. Look at Drow, they used to have a level adjustment. Aasimar had a level adjustment, Deva don't though. Tiefling had one as well and no longer do. Sure their level adjustments weren't as big as the Illithid one, but point is it can be done and there WAS a playable Illithid once before so we could have one again.
Drow were pretty much just regular elves with a few extra abilities. Aasimar wouldn't have had a level adjustment if their stats didn't get such a large bonus (I think, I don't have many 3rded books with me). Same goes for Tiefling. Ithillids, on the other hand, can shoot psychic blasts and such brains out of peoples heads. I'm not saying it COULDN'T be done, but it would be very difficult to do so.
That said, I think the primary argument about the problems Mind Flayers would have as a PC race is more their diet, appearance and fluff than their abilities.
EDIT: Both excellent points, but not giving the Mind Flayers mind blast and/or bore into brain strays dangerously close to furry four-armed Kobolds  . That said, that still is a perfectly acceptable route to take, though I still believe it would be easier to make a new squid like race for PC use.
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 6:32PM
#322
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Drow were pretty much just regular elves with a few extra abilities. Aasimar wouldn't have had a level adjustment if their stats didn't get such a large bonus (I think, I don't have many 3rded books with me). Same goes for Tiefling. Ithillids, on the other hand, can shoot psychic blasts and such brains out of peoples heads. I'm not saying it COULDN'T be done, but it would be very difficult to do so.
Eh, already covered much of this in my previous post that I posted while you were likely writing this post.
That said, I think the primary argument about the problems Mind Flayers would have as a PC race is more their diet, appearance and fluff than their abilities.
Much of which minor fluff changes would take care of. Also, what's wrong with their appearance? Minotaurs are pretty monstrous in appearance and yet they are playable.
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 6:45PM
#323
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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I believe someone already touched on that point.. ah here it is.
Oh gods, I can see it now....
DM: "Before you stands a humanoid figure around 6 feet tall. It's head is an expression of nightmare; it's eyes are two bloated orbs of white, and where it's mouth should be 4 hideous tentacles writh around the head of a helpless orc, whos keening wail speaks of utter torment. With a sickening crack, the figure pulls itself free of the orc, who collapses to the ground, with naught but empty space and glistening ichor where his brain should be. The figure straightens, and turns to face you."
Player 1: "You seem trustworthy. Would you care to join us in our noble quest?"
Illithid: "Yes. Yes I would."
...sorry I just love that quote, tempted to sig it :D
The point is that Minotaurs are anthropormothic, if hulking, humans. Mindflayers are modelled after the Elder god of insanity and evil. What's more, there's a certain precident for heroic minotaurs in popular culture (eg. Tauren from WoW), and even make a mention of such minotaurs in the Monster Manual. Ithillids have been portrayed as pretty much pure, unadulterated maliciousness since their conception. The fact that they also look totally awesome as a PC race probably isn't worth taking away the "Agggh, squid thing!" factor when PC's bump into an evil one.
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 7:06PM
#324
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Illithid are also anthropomorphic. Really I think you're playing up the tentacles too much. There's nothing wrong with that visual.
Really, look up pictures of Minotaurs and Illithids. They both look equally monsterous.
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 7:12PM
#325
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2005
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I'd say give them mind blast instead of bore into brain actually. However make it a weaker version of mind blast. Perhaps some racial feats to power it up some in paragon and/or epic tiers.
Doesn't make much sense to take away all use of their tentacles...they're a physical factor that still exist even if the fluff and mechanics say you can't use them. It'd be only marginally different than chopping the tentacles off entirely.
Mind Blast, however, is merely a power with no obvious indicators of any sort. If you encountered two Illithids, and niether used mind blast, you'd never have any idea which one actually didn't have the power at all. You'd notice if their tentacles were useless or missing, though.
Plus, fluff-wise, it's easier to explain that they don't actually "bore into brain" with their grab and have no access to Mind Blast because they stopped eating sentient brains. They just don't get enough psychic juice from animal brains to use Mind Blast...and they never eat the brains of sentient creatures, making the actuall "boring into brain" part useless, and thus reducing it to a really good grab or something.
As for the fear and loathing such a character would encounter from others...well now that's just part of the fun of playing one. lol
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 7:14PM
#326
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Hmmm... you do have a point, though like I said Mind Flayers have always been pretty much "pure evil" while there's precedent for heroic minotaurs. Even disregarding Warcraft, there's still the Dragonlance minotaurs, for instance. That said, I'd say that we're slightly less likely to get an Ithillid write up as we would an ogre write up, if they ever managed to find a way to get around the size issue. It's not impossible, and I'd gladly play one if they did one, but it's not very likely 
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 7:18PM
#327
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Doesn't make much sense to take away all use of their tentacles...they're a physical factor that still exist even if the fluff and mechanics say you can't use them. It'd be only marginally different than chopping the tentacles off entirely.
Mind Blast, however, is merely a power with no obvious indicators of any sort. If you encountered two Illithids, and niether used mind blast, you'd never have any idea which one actually didn't have the power at all. You'd notice if their tentacles were useless or missing, though.
Plus, fluff-wise, it's easier to explain that they don't actually "bore into brain" with their grab and have no access to Mind Blast because they stopped eating sentient brains. They just don't get enough psychic juice from animal brains to use Mind Blast...and they never eat the brains of sentient creatures, making the actuall "boring into brain" part useless, and thus reducing it to a really good grab or something.
As for the fear and loathing such a character would encounter from others...well now that's just part of the fun of playing one. lol
I suggest Mind Blast specifically because it's more universally useful while bore into brain is far too melee specific, especially for a race that would rather obviously be geared towards being a caster.
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 7:57PM
#328
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2008
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I suggest Mind Blast specifically because it's more universally useful while bore into brain is far too melee specific, especially for a race that would rather obviously be geared towards being a caster.
They could give them both, but make 'bore into brain' a racial feat. Then a melee based illithid could pick it up for an extra attack.
The default blast would be weaker than the monster without powering up at tiers and feats but that makes sense as the monster stats aren't for a level 1 monster.
As for 'useless tentacles' look at the default tiefling: despite a tail and horns they don't get any use out of them mechanics-wise by default. Shifters aren't likely to get any built-in bonuses as monks either even with claws on their hands. Not all physical features translate into a game mechanic benefit.
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 9:01PM
#329
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2002
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Guys, there are a couple of threads concerning the idea of Illithid as a player race, might I suggest that the discussion of such be moved there, rather than say, in a topic about things that are confirmed?
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4 years ago ::
May 23, 2009 - 9:01PM
#330
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2003
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Also, just to emphasise my point, in the Vampire entry of the monster manual, it merely says that vampires thirst for blood, not that they have to feed on it regularly. Does this mean that vampires could be vegetarians? Barring personal refluffing of course
As undead vampires arguably have no need for any form of sustenance. In fact it is not at all uncommon for vampires in various fictions to be able to go for long periods of time or even indefinitely without feeding. In such fictions fresh blood is usually only needed to fuel the vampires more impressive supernatural abilities.
I suggest Mind Blast specifically because it's more universally useful while bore into brain is far too melee specific, especially for a race that would rather obviously be geared towards being a caster.
I agreed. A weakened mind blast (balanced against the dragonborns breath attack) would seems well in line. As for the tentacles, a racial trait that grants them a +2 bonus on grab checks would be quite enough to represent the advantages they provide in holding a target.
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