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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:53AM
#51
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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In the previous two PH we had:
1) Four Martial (one for each role, save controller which might have been hard, so a second Striker was used), Two Divine (Leader and Defender) and Two Arcane (Striker and Controller)
2) Four Primal (one for each role), Two Divine (Striker and Controller to fill in a Divine group's blank spots) and two Arcane (leader and a striker. It doesn't fill in the black except if you use the Swordmage Arcane Defender from FRPG)
So each book seems to have eight spots for classes. Which is the reason for the 4/4 and 4/2/2 idea.
For PH3 and PH4:
We know that the Monk is being developed for it and is a Ki Striker at the moment. So Ki is a power source for PH3. Sources left from the PH are Psionic, Ki, Shadow and Element. With Necromancer and Illusionist being suggested for Shadow.
Guesses:
Either Psionics or Ki will likely be the 'major' power of the third PH, with the second in secondary role. If 4/4, I would say it would be Ki/Psionics due to the work being done on the monk and the traditions with D&D mental powers.
If 4/2/2, it would still be Ki or Psionics in the four spot with the other being in the first two spot. I would also believe that Shadow would be the second two for the use of Illusionist and Necromancer. Given the traditions of the later two in D&D.
The former being a Striker with Controller aspect or vice versa. Illusions allowing them to move the foe or themselves into position and phantom blows causing damage (think you have been stab mental shock to death kind of thing, perhaps with Psychic type damage). Imagine an illusionist being invisible, luring a foe with a realistic illusion. Then striking behind them with a phantom blade which causes the foes body to react like it was being stabbed in the heart and have the heart shut down.
The latter would work with a Leader as it can drain the hp of targets (necromantic energy) to heal the hp of allies. It could also be used to suck energy from foes to boost the power/energy of allies.
Elementals might take some time to work on the difference from the common elemental type damage of other classes and would wait till PH 4. So PH4 would be Four elemental/Two Ki or Psionic/Two shadow.
Thoughts?
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:59AM
#52
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Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2004
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how 4e classes are sorted
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4e classes come in two kinds of products: Player's Handbooks and Player's Guides (the player books for campaign settings). In the Player's handbooks, they are sorted primarily by power source (note the subtitles for the Player's Handbook and Player's Handbook II), and this is how they are sorted for class splat books as well (at least for now, I could see 'defender's Handbooks' and the like as a later product, but we haven't heard of anything like that yet). The pattern so far is 4 classes of each power source published in Players handbooks. These four do not necessarily divide evenly into the combat roles, however (note martial with two strikers and no controller, or arcane with two strikers and no defender, at least not in the PHB series).
Campaign player's guides don't seem to follow any restriction here, though I doubt we'll see any classes published in a player's guide for a power source that hasn't previously been published in a player's handbook.
Note that none of these are hard and fast rules, they're just trends that have been noticed from products so far. These trends seem pretty solid, but there's nothing to say they won't change. confirmed power sources
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As for the power source, since that seems to be the primary sorting tool for class releases, there have been eight confirmed for 4e. There's nothing to say they couldn't introduce more in the future, but that seems unlikely at this point. The eight power sources are:
Martial: Power derived from phsyical training, honing the body and mind. This is the most 'mundane' of the power sources, but even Martial powers can achieve superhuman feats in paragon and especially epic levels (think greek heroes). The martial power source seems to lend itself to the striker and (to a lesser extent) defender roles, and seems ill suited to controllers. Martial Power is more personal in nature, and as such doesn't seem associated with any particular plane of existance.
Arcane: Arcane power is fairly nebulously defined. It generally seems characterized by a variety of flashy powers, capable of producing a variety of magical effects, from healing to elemental damage, to assorted utility like illusions, invisibility, teleportation, flight, and so on. Arcane power can be derived from careful study, innate talent, or can be gifted by a supernatural 'other', ranging in nature from fey to outsider to semi-devine (devils). Arcane powers lend themselves to the controller power source. Arcane power is loosly associated with the Feywild and the Elemental Chaos.
Divine: Divine power is drawn from the astral sea, granted to mortals in rituals of investure, where the recipient is granted power by aligning themselves with a divine power - whether a god or some other being. After being invested, the character develops that power on their own, rather then having it continually granted (ie, a character can't be directly 'cut off' if their patron dislikes the way they are using their power). Divine power is associated with radiant energy and healing (at least so far), and seems to lend itself to the leader role. In the fluff, Divine power is strongly associated with the Astral Sea.
Primal: Primal Power is introduced in the Players Handbook II - I don't have that book yet, so my description may be somewhat off. My understanding is that primal power is drawn directly from the spirits and and mystical essence of the natural world. Mountain spirits, river spirits, plant spirits, animal spirits, and so on. Primal characters learn to harness these spirits in order to protect the natural world. Primal Power is generally transformative in nature, from mild transformations like the barbarian's rage to extreme transformations like the druid's wild shape. I'm not sure if it will lend itself to one role over another, as I'm not sure what the secondary roles of the various primal classes are. In the fluff, Primal power is strongly associated with the Natural World.
Ki: The Ki power source is scheduled to be introduced in PHBIII (monk has been separately confirmed as a key striker and as a class in the PHBIII, although either, especially the power source and role, may be subject to change). Not much is known about what the Ki source will entail, or what kinds of powers will be associated with it. There was some mention of 'the soul', but that was quite a while ago, and is thus unreliable. DDI subscribers are scheduled to see a preview of the Monk in the not too distant future, so we may have a better idea then of what the Ki power source actually entails.
Psychic: The psychic power source is confirmed for 4e, but we don't know for sure when it will be introduced, let alone how it will be characterized. In the past the Psychic power source represented supernatural powers derived from a character's mind, and was associated with charm and force effects. That is likely to remain true in 4e. It may have no planar associations, being internally derived like martial power. Alternatively, it might be associated with the Farplane and aberations, as it has been in some campaign settings.
Shadow: The shadow power source is confirmed for 4e, but like psychic we don't know when it will be introduced, and we don't know for sure how it will be characterized. We have some hints so far - drawn from paragon paths with shadow keyword powers - with abilities ranging from invisibility to animating a target's shadow to attack them. General speculation and designer comments associate the shadow source with illusions, stealth, necrotic damage, and probably necromancy. It's obviously associated with the Shadowfell.
Elemental: The Elemental power, like Psychic and Shadow, is confirmed for 4e, but we don't know when it will be introduced or what exactly it will look like. It will likely be associated with the Elemental Chaos and the Titans, and will almost certainly be capable of producing a range of elemental damage effects, similar to Arcane powers. Beyond that, who knows. So far, the PHBIII is confirmed to include the monk, and with it the Ki power source. If they stick with the 4 classes/source trend in Player's handbooks, we'll probably either see two power sources, with four classes each, or we'll see one power source with four classes, and two each with two classes (as with PHBI and PHBII). Psionic is very likely, because of legacy value if nothing else, so if they go 4/4 I think we'll see psionic and Ki. If they go 4/2/2, I think we'll see elemental in there as well, as that's the power source with the least buzz. People aren't too excited about it at this point because elemental effects seem adaquatly covered by the arcane power source. They'd be using popular options (psionic, monk) to sell unpopular ones (elemental). Shadow will, I think, be left for PHBIV. Its concept is popular enough to sell the book, even alongside elemental, while being slightly less of a priority then the monk or psionic classes. As for races, I think we'll see both types of gith, since they share connections to both psionics and ki, and I'm guessing we'll se both in the book. Other then that, elan are popular, and possibly Eberron's Kalashtar. I don't have any guesses beyond that.
Necromancy: Friendship is MagicSpoiler:
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 2:49PM
#53
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The question is, will the Necromancer be a leader or a controller?
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 3:36PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Sep 11, 2005
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Elemental is a thing? Really? I mean, there aren't there already a bunch of arcane classes that pretty much use all the elements? What's the point of making a different power source when you've already got one that could logically do anything you wanted to do with the new one?
I guess it doesn't really do any harm, so I'm not really complaining, but it sure seems unnecessary.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 7:49PM
#55
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Elemental is a thing? Really? I mean, there aren't there already a bunch of arcane classes that pretty much use all the elements? What's the point of making a different power source when you've already got one that could logically do anything you wanted to do with the new one?
I guess it doesn't really do any harm, so I'm not really complaining, but it sure seems unnecessary.
Why does everyone jump to the conclusion that the Elemental power source has something to do with earth, fire, wind, and water, rather than the Elemental Chaos?
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 7:51PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Oct 16, 2007
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Why does everyone jump to the conclusion that the Elemental power source has something to do with earth, fire, wind, and water, rather than the Elemental Chaos?
Well the Elemental Chaos has a lot of Earth, Fire, Wind and Water in it...
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:18PM
#57
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I hope they break it down 4/2/2 again, with shadow/ki/psionic.
Shadow Controller: Illusionist
Shadow Defender: Blackguard
Shadow Leader: Necromancer
Shadow Striker: Ninja
Ki Striker: Monk
Ki Defender: Samurai
Psionic Leader: ???
Psionic Controller: ???
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4 years ago ::
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:23PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2005
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Why does everyone jump to the conclusion that the Elemental power source has something to do with earth, fire, wind, and water, rather than the Elemental Chaos?
I agree with you that folks probably shouldn't jump to the conclusion that the Elemental power source will be all about "earth, fire, wind, and water", but I'm not sure that anyone should jump to the conclusion that it will necessarily be about some relationship to the Elemental Chaos either. The fact is, we know next to nothing about what the Elemental power source will "be", and there's possibly as many as a half-dozen different concepts of which any or all could become a significant part of the theme of the power source. Beyond this, so far any links between power sources and the planes are extremely tenuous, and have a lot more to do with indirect ("shared association") concepts that with any kinds of direct connections.
What I'm trying to say is that I agree with you, but let's not jump from the frying pan into the fire.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:51AM
#59
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2006
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If psionics is going to be one of the power sources, then perhaps the Duergar will get a place with the races.
we went to 4ed to get away from subrace of the month . if they do include more than one dwarf race they should be unique such as Azer's, or Maeluth.
but to the point since rumor speculates a darksun revival maby thi-kreens and dromites.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:45PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2008
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but to the point since rumor speculates a darksun revival maby thi-kreens and dromites.
If DarkSun, I say: Gith and Elan in PH3, with Mul and Thri-keen in the DSPG.
Ahh, so THIS is where I can add a sig.
Remember: Killing an ancient God inside of a pyramid IS a Special Occasion, and thus, ladies should be dipping into their Special Occasions underwear drawer.
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