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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 3:27PM
#251
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2006
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Kay
18 con > 16 Con by +1
Hellfireblood grants a FEAT +1 hit +1 Damage with fire powers.
Up until now Tiefling warlocks remained competitive 16 Con and HB
Now they will ALWAYS be behind the 18 Con.
Of course, Hellfire blood is now essentially a worthless feat.
still not getting this...
16 con = 3+1/2level
18 con = 4+1/2level
20 con = 5+1/2level
16 is the expected number...that is why the defualt array is a 16 as it's hgih stat...
having a 16 was good enough on day 1...it still is.
having an 18 is better then a 16...was on day 1 still is.
having a feat give a +1 to hit is a BONUS (aka not needed)
how often do you have two warlock in the same game compeating with eachother???
the reason I ask is becuse the monsters are not any diffrent tody then they were 8 weeks ago...
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 3:32PM
#252
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
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GM, I don't know how you are misinterupting what I am saying.
Before IE: Tieflings could make up not starting with ideal stats with a feat.
After IE: The feat for Tieflings is rendered useless, 1/2 of the feat is covered by another feat the 1/2 of the feat dates itself by level 11.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 3:37PM
#253
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2006
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GM, I don't know how you are misinterupting what I am saying.
Before IE: Tieflings could make up not starting with ideal stats with a feat.
After IE: The feat for Tieflings is rendered useless, 1/2 of the feat is covered by another feat the 1/2 of the feat dates itself by level 11.
ok so what are you mesureing this teifling against...becuse the monsters have not changed...
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 4:02PM
#254
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
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How about the fact that a racial feat (which are suppose ot be better than other feats) isn't better anymore.
DWT: Superior Weapon Prof+Paragon WF
ES: Superior Prof+Paragon WF
HB: W/I E+Heroric WF.
There is nothing that makes Hellfire blood special anymore. It went from a good feat that allowed a particular class to be good despite not having bonuses in the right stats (Hellocks) to not even being behind everyone by level 11.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 4:09PM
#255
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2006
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since you seam to have missed my quastion
ok so what are you mesureing this teifling against...becuse the monsters have not changed...
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 4:40PM
#256
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
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GM LISTEN.
Feat: You gain a +1 hit and damage feat bonus
Feat: You gain a +1 hit feat bonus
Feat: You gain a +1 damage per tier bonus.
The first feat is eclipsed by the other two.
This feat as is, makes Hellfire blood useless as a feat except for the first ten levels of a person's career.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 4:49PM
#257
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2006
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GM LISTEN.
Feat: You gain a +1 hit and damage feat bonus
Feat: You gain a +1 hit feat bonus
Feat: You gain a +1 damage per tier bonus.
The first feat is eclipsed by the other two.
This feat as is, makes Hellfire blood useless as a feat except for the first ten levels of a person's career.
so swap it for a paragon feat at 11...I still don't get it...1 feat gives +1 to hit...one gives +1 to damage per teir...one gives +1 to BOTH for circumstances...
sounds balanced to me same bonus as 2 feats, but with a limit...fire only...
and since you seam to have missed my quastion
ok so what are you mesureing this teifling against...becuse the monsters have not changed...
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 4:52PM
#258
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Date Joined:
Apr 23, 2005
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Let me arbitrate this fight for a moment:
GMforPowergamers (aptly named) doesn't care whether one race is balanced against another. What matters to him/her is whether PCs will do better or worse against monsters than they did before. In other words, power creep is a meaningless issue for him/her.
Aluman does compare races to one another. His/her opinion is that you should be able to use just about any race/class combination and not feel like you've made a poor choice. He/she believes that the game is weakened if people who want to make optimal characters will have limited options.
Get it?
"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday BookThe Core Coliseum: test out your 4e builds and fight to the death.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 4:59PM
#259
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2006
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GMforPowergamers (aptly named) doesn't care whether one race is balanced against another. What matters to him/her is whether PCs will do better or worse against monsters than they did before. In other words, power creep is a meaningless issue for him/her.
wrong first I hate power creep...I just don't see this as any Meaningful amount of power creep
what I don't understand is how adding anything invaladates things that already work...lets take a Warlock/Wizard tefling who has both a wand and a rod, heck maybe a cool staff too...if most of his powers are fire based (not hard) isn't Helfire blood the better feat?
and since we know NOTHING of how the feat works remember we are all guessing...
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
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4 years ago ::
Feb 08, 2009 - 5:09PM
#260
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2008
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so swap it for a paragon feat at 11...I still don't get it...1 feat gives +1 to hit...one gives +1 to damage per teir...one gives +1 to BOTH for circumstances...
sounds balanced to me same bonus as 2 feats, but with a limit...fire only...
and since you seam to have missed my quastion
Ok lets look at other Racial feats from PHB that are equilivent of 2 feats (I have already done this in this thread but for your sake)
ES: Superior Weapon (Only 1 as you will unlikely use more than one superior weapon at a time) and Paragon level WF
DWT: Superior Weapon (Same as a above) and Paragon level WF.
Now Hellfire blood: I/W Expertise and Heroic Level WF.
So suddenly because of a new feat, the Tiefling feat is devalued.
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