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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 1:50AM
#81
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
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Let me understand this, the rules aren't even out yet and you are already houseruling them away?
I....wow.
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 4:52AM
#82
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Yes, that is right :D
I have enough experience with D&D so I am able to do predict results of rules changes even without testing them.
If I didn't I would not be able to create my d20 Starcraft.
Starcraft Saga Edition: http://sc2se.wikispaces.com/
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 5:17AM
#83
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
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I'm just amazed that you would bother until you found out whether the rules, I dunno, actually worked.
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 9:02AM
#84
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2008
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Way back in 1E and 2E, I would have my players more-or-less stuck in positions where the convenience of "resting" after every encounter just wasn't possible. Encounter after encounter in places such as Mith Drannor, the Underdark, Zhentil Keep, and dozens of others kept the players going, forcing them to rely on their wits and cunning instead of the convenient "time out" afforded by frequent healing rests. Not only, in my opinion of course, are the new healing rules extremely unrealistic (imagine that in a fantasy game), they don't exactly make for a smooth-flowing game. To me (and I'm probably in the minority), having the ability to rest and regain HP every few minutes could possibly cripple the game-play, as any little bit of damage received in an encounter can be undone by a few minutes' rest. Naturally, I'm going to play 4E as is, right out of the books for quite a while before making any house-rule changes. The above statement is just my opinion.
Keep in mind that the game is balanced for the current system. You will have to lower your encounter xp budget if you plan on making areas where they will have to fight many many fights in a row without resting. Also, how is using healing surges after battle not smooth-flowing? It takes a few seconds. It is not as if they rest "every few minutes". They rest between encounters, which last more than a few minutes. We ran a preview adventure that was well-balanced, and by the time we got to the end, we were JUST out of healing surges(5 encounters total). If they would have never been able to rest after the encounters, they would have had no chance to make it through the dungeon. I only see weakening those encounters as taking the fun away, and you would have to weaken them quite a bit.
As you said, you'll have to try it out and see how it works. I just have a hunch that you'll find the rules work just fine and not detract from the experience at all. The party is simply taking a "breather" and hitpoints simply aren't the same hitpoints you think of in previous editions. Your party members are expected to get beat up quite a bit more. It only makes for more exciting encounters when you are always in danger of dropping to the floor. You would have to weaken the encounters to a point where your character do not really have much threat of dying(i.e. if they are not able to rest, you can't expect an encounter to deal 1/3rd-1/4th of their health with one blow, as that would essentially ensure the party's doom, thus why the healing is needed in between encounters).
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 10:30AM
#85
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
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Archangel,
If I understand you, your are concerned with the theme and mood of the game. You want the heroes to fight tough battles get hurt, fight to exhaustion and then after a hard fought victory limp back to town. Lots of good stories have that theme.
I am guessing, but not sure, that is what you are going for, not games where the party goes to the site of the adventure explores two areas and goes home for a week. Then comes back to find nothing changed.
My advice is not to mess with the mechanics of the rules right now, and get the effect you want with the narrative of the game. Write less encounters in each adventure and make the encounters you do have bigger. Make the encounters challenging and climatic and then stress to the party that they are exhausted and in need of rest. To use LOTR as an example, the battle the mines of moria could be one run as one really big encounter. Afterwards the fellowship limps off to rest with the elves.
Personally I think it’s a mistake to have realistic wound rules. Just run the fight with the rules in the book and then when appropriate for the story just the players they are really hurt and need rest. If the players like your game, the story is interesting, and the fights are fun and exciting they will go with the flow even if they have healing surges left.
When I DM I find myself getting hung up on details and math, that I myself don't find very fun when I am player someone else’s game. Generally speaking simpler mechanics with role-playing to fill in the holes, is better than complicated mechanics.
Not liking the new forums.
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5 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 2:22PM
#86
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2007
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My computer dies over the weekend and whole hell breaks lose here :D
I must say this topic has become a big mess and it is OFF TOPIC most of the time.
Most of the time I cannot say if someone if replying to me or to some other poster. Also I see lots of people missed my post on page 2 where I asked for people to not comment if this house rule is needed or not and similar posts because we spend one and a half page on that already and nothing new can come out anymore.
This is a forum on the internet, were you expecting a personal and intimate discussion?
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 10:23PM
#87
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2001
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The difference is that in the time they are back they can get another adventure, they can meet new or old friends/enemies. They can ROLEPLAY, not just ROLLPLAY. They can make choices that are more then just which power they will use to kill the next opponent. Also adventures that are based on time restrictions will make the players make difficult choices. There are million different things that can happen (chosen by me or more important by the players) while they are resting. Maybe they decide to not go back and this opens a whole lot of adventure options. Something that would never happen if they had double HS and all got to full HP after each fight and could just take a 6 hour break and be fresh and like new, they would just keep going.
If a 6 hour break is too short a time for other events to be happening, how long of a time do you feel is appropriate? Just pick a time unit (X days) and then say this is the amount of time it takes for characters to recover full hit points and healing surges. If characters only rest for half this time, they will recover half as many.
I wonder if there will be options in the PH (or PH2) that allow you to lengthen the time to completely heal.
<\
\>tuntman
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 6:26AM
#88
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
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I also want to add that in 3.5 wands and potions well relatively cheap and plentiful once a party hit medium level. Also a party could hire a healer type NPC or have a follower with healing powers to travel with them to serve as the med bot. Either way a party could get the crap pounded out of them then, take ten minutes to get back to fighting trim.
Even if the DM limits these options, then the party rests for 8 hrs (instead of 6) and the cleric burns most of his spells on healing so the party is now back to full health. The only difference is that in 3.5 the guy playing the cleric starts the day without his spells and has less fun in the game because he now has to swing his mace each and every round. So the 4E system is looking good to me.
Not liking the new forums.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 8:46AM
#89
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2007
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It's also complete dreck designed to punish players for not following the railroad that is the DM's will.
It's worse than the OP's system.
Every DM is free to run the game in any way they wish. If the players don't like his/her style, they should em know. If the players have fun with the DM's style, and have played for several years togeter, I don't think it's anyone's place to say they are playing "wrong".
The only situation where the game should be played in a standard manner is community events, such as RPGA or Conventions. But even some convention events are played a bit differently to offer a different flavor to the game.
The OP has considered the rest mechanic presented in the preview, and feels that it doesn't fit the spirit of the type of game his group has been playing. He offered some ideas that may reduce the effect of Extended Rest (6 hrs), and was seeking comment on those mechanics.
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5 years ago ::
May 19, 2008 - 1:22PM
#90
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2008
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My system hardly punishes the players at all. They only suffer wounds on a crit and the system is easily adjusted if it seems too harsh after using it. People are just ignorant and have no capability to see how the system works during a game.
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