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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 6:01AM
#1
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Hey all, I just compiled a level-by-level breakdown of what you get and when. I'd like to share it with y'all, and see if I missed anything. [code] Level Gains1 Racial features, class features, 2 at-will powers, 1 encounter power, 1 daily power, 1 feat 2 1 utility power, 1 feat 3 1 encounter power4 1 feat, ability increase 5 1 daily power 6 1 utility power7 1 encounter power 8 1 feat, ability increase 9 1 daily power10 1 utility power, 1 feat 11 Paragon feature, paragon action feature, paragon encounter power, 1 feat, ability increase 12 Paragon utility power, 1 feat, ability increase13 1 encounter power 14 1 feat, ability increase 15 1 daily power16 1 utility power, Paragon feature, ability increase 17 1 encounter power 18 1 feat, ability increase19 1 daily power 20 Paragon daily power, ability increase 21 Epic feature, 1 feat, ability increase22 1 utility power, 1 feat 23 1 encounter power 24 Epic feature, 1 feat, ability increase25 1 daily power 26 Epic utility power 27 1 encounter power28 1 feat, ability increase 29 1 daily power 30 Epic feature[/code] The power gains, ability score increases, and feat progression was all taken from the Tiers of Play excerpt, while the Paragon abilities were derived from the Paragon Paths excerpt. And the epic abilities were gleaned from both the Tiers article, and the Epic Destinies excerpt. If I'm missing something, or got something in error, please let me know, so I can fix it. Thanks! TBP
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 6:43AM
#2
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leveling up appears to be the most complex aspect of 4e.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 7:49AM
#3
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leveling up appears to be the most complex aspect of 4e.
You do get a lot of stuff at each level.
Conversely, though, I think that the charts and stuff they provide indicate that it will be easy to check at any given level what you should have, so you don't need to go back through the lists and carefully make sure everything came together in the proper order over the last 10 levels you took.
I think this is a good balance. It's always disappointing to gain a level and realize that you got absolutely nothing other than a slight bump in hitpoints and a higher base attack bonus, and it's always a headache when building higher-level characters to make sure that you know what feats, spells, abilities, and skill points you picked at what time.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:06AM
#4
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I think this is a good balance. It's always disappointing to gain a level and realize that you got absolutely nothing other than a slight bump in hitpoints and a higher base attack bonus, and it's always a headache when building higher-level characters to make sure that you know what feats, spells, abilities, and skill points you picked at what time.
Seconded. While it may make for some complexities, the new leveling system seems to provide something new every time the players "ding." There's plenty of reward to offset the cost of more paperwork.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:14AM
#5
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I don't remember the teirs of play being that definite about when feats are gained, but i'm at work and can't review it here.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:19AM
#6
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Seconded.
Thirded.
I love the idea that PCs get cool stuff every time they level up.
Looking for Gamers near Winkleigh, Devon, UK 
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:20AM
#7
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I beleive you get a feat at 1st, 11th, 21st and all even levels...
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:27AM
#8
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Fourthed
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:28AM
#9
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I don't remember the teirs of play being that definite about when feats are gained, but i'm at work and can't review it here.
5. Select Feats. You generally don’t have to worry about the level at which you gained a particular feat, since retraining allows you to have the feats you want at any given level. Do watch out for paragon and epic feats, though. For example, a 14th-level character can’t have more than seven paragon feats (those gained at 11th, 12th, and 14th level, as well as up to four retrained feats).
Well, since it lists 11, 12, and 14, I extrapolated the 8 and 10 from the Multiclassing excerpt, where it lists the prerequisite for Acolyte Power at lvl 8, and Adept Power at level 10. I figured that if the level was listed, it would be the earliest level that feat was available.
With the 11, 12, 14, 8, and 10, I I just "filled in the blanks," so to speak.
TBP
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:33AM
#10
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 Its now easier than ever to create your own class or path, and have a good sense of balance.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:57AM
#11
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nice
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 11:00AM
#12
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your ability increases seem kind of off after 8th lv, you jump from 8th, to 14th inbetween ability increases, when I think its suppose to be the same as it is now. 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th, 24th, 28th,
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 11:04AM
#13
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your ability increases seem kind of off after 8th lv, you jump from 8th, to 14th inbetween ability increases, when I think its suppose to be the same as it is now. 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th, 24th, 28th,
Slight oversight, thanks for pointing out the error!
TBP
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 11:10AM
#14
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I think its important that now there are no "dead" levels where all you get is HP. I know my players are very excited about the 4th edition and I know I'm SUPER-READY to get those core books in hand.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 11:13AM
#15
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your ability increases seem kind of off after 8th lv, you jump from 8th, to 14th inbetween ability increases, when I think its suppose to be the same as it is now. 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th, 24th, 28th,
not really. Because in the Tiers of play article it says:
"3. Determine Ability Scores. Generate scores as for a 1st-level character, applying racial modifiers. Then increase those scores as shown on the Character Advancement table in the Player’s Handbook, with increases at 4th level, 8th level, 11th, 14th, and so on. (You can also use the NPC Ability Scores table on page 187 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.)"
Some think that every tier of play gives you ability increases one level sooner than the last tier. Making ability bumps occur roughly at levels 4, 8, 11, 14, 17, 21, 23, 25, 27, 29. meaning a +10 to one or two ability scores (depending if you get a +1 to one stat or two every level up).
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 11:16AM
#16
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Slight oversight, thanks for pointing out the error!
TBP
I'm not sure you were in error. Ability scores seem to increase to increase with the tier and at 4 and 8 levels after the tier. So, 4th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 18th, 21st, 24th, and 28th. (Of course Zeful's system also explains the sequence)
3. Determine Ability Scores. Generate scores as for a 1st-level character, applying racial modifiers. Then increase those scores as shown on the Character Advancement table in the Player’s Handbook, with increases at 4th level, 8th level, 11th, 14th, and so on. (You can also use the NPC Ability Scores table on page 187 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.)
If there were an increase at 12th level it would have been listed in the sequence.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 11:49AM
#17
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hmmm that seems rather odd though.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 1:10PM
#18
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The ability increases are at 4, 8, 11th, 14th, 18th, 21st, 24th, and 28th; they follow a numerical pattern, not a counting pattern.
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 9:08PM
#19
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The ability increases are at 4, 8, 11th, 14th, 18th, 21st, 24th, and 28th; they follow a numerical pattern, not a counting pattern.
Not to sound distrustful, but where do you get these numbers from? I'm just trying to get this as accurate as possible ^_^
TBP
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2 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 10:07PM
#20
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I agree with Xeviat and Moribund. Based on the language in the tiers of play article ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080416a) that gives an example of how you would determine the ability scores if you were starting out at a higher level, there is no increase at 12. From this I believe that the increases will only be at the 1st, 4th and 8th level of each tier. While this could be wrong because we are extrapolating from limited information, there is also a logic to it as the fourth and eighth levels are the only ones where you do not receive a power, and the first level of each tier combines powers feats and bonuses so that the characters are clearly entering a new level of play and increasing in capabilities. Therefore, ability bonuses are distributed in a way to make otherwise uninteresting levels a little more interesting and to make the first level of each tier truly special. In addition, the recent Economy and Rewards excerpt states that ability bonuses are on even levels (it doesn't specify all even levels) and the progression Zeful mentioned includes odd numbered levels (beyond just the 1st level of each tier which the tiers of play article suggests does grant an ability bonus). It should be pointed out that the statement in the economy and rewards excerpt is a broad generalization about what happens at odd and even levels and as such should not carry as much weight as information in the tiers excerpt. In terms of other concerns about TBP's table, I'm not sure I understand the logic of where the feats have been placed. I was under the impression that feats were granted every even level (in addition to the 1st level of a tier) and the table omits granting feats for some of the even levels. My rationale for feats on every even level comes from the tiers article as well in which a 14th level character is cited as having paragon feats from levels 11, 12 and 14. Furthermore, we now know from KoTS that the sample characters get a feat at 2nd level. What can be confusing about the tiers article is that it goes on to say that the 14th level character can have 4 other paragon level traits through re-training. One way to interpret this is that two of the even levels in the heroic tier do not grant feats so there are only 4 (1 first level and 3 even level) feats available to retrain. However, my interpretation is that characters only get to retrain one feat at each level, so the 14th level character had accumulated 6 heroic tier feats (levels 1,2,4,6,8,10) and retrained one of them to paragon level at level 11, retrained a second at level 12, a third at level 13, and the fourth at level 14, granting the 4 additional paragon level feats. Overall my feedback for your table is remove ability increases from levels 12, 16 and 20, and add feats to levels 6, 16, 20, 26 and 30. However, I am fully prepared to be proven wrong when the books come out since we are working from such a small amount of information.
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