|
5 years ago ::
Mar 06, 2008 - 2:39PM
#41
|
Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2007
|
[url] HTTP://WWW.AOSTRA.FR [/url]
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 06, 2008 - 2:50PM
#42
|
Date Joined:
Sep 10, 2007
|
I have many of the same concerns some have raised in this tread.
I do understand that hp is a mix of physical and intangible aspects of health. I also think I understand the feel they are going for with the relatively high hp for lvl-1 characters, along with the availability of healing on the go, and being at 100% after a night’s rest. It seems to lend itself quite readily to a hack and slash type game where the PCs are not just heroic, but Super-Human.
My fear is that it makes my “red-box” D&D game less like fantasy and more like some sort of action-adventure film (and supported by all the Die Hard references). It seems to me that injury has NO lasting impact on the PC beyond the encounter. After a hard day fighting horde of orcs barely escaping death and spent of all energy, they are at 100% with roses and sunshine after just 6 hrs under the stars without using any resource of any sort. It makes me wonder if damage and injury has become too trivial.
A lot of the changes I have been reading about have been very interesting to me. I think the at-will / encounter / daily powers structure can work very well. But this is the 1st change I have saw that I disagree with. There should be some consequence when you end the day at 5% of your hp, instead of 90% of your hp. It seems to eliminate a part of the risk in combat.
I will have to test it out when the rules are released, but I can envision a house rule that you get a “free” surge after a night’s rest (along with a reset of your powers).
When was the last time you played a game and everyone felt that the "funnest" part of the session was camping after every encounter? There's still a need for downtime and those can be fun for character development and interaction.
Any thing to speed up the game is ok by me. And I don't just mean to get to the combat. But to advance the plot of the campaign or solo shot adventure.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 06, 2008 - 3:01PM
#43
|
|
|
That doesn't mean you've taken heavy physical damage or a serious wound or something, it just means that all those glancing blows, clubs to the shield, and superficial wounds are finally starting to get you down.[/quote]
It could even mean that you get your first little scratch and just start to think your luck is soon running out. Take a typical sword-duel scene in a movie: the guys spend several minutes hitting their swords together time after time after time, then one of them manages to cut the other guy's arm, drawing first blood. They pause, the wounded guy brushes the wound, and attacks again with twice as much ferocity, soon cutting the opponent in turn. Then the fight picks up the pace even more in growing desperation, until finally, both fighters having exhausted their hit points (and most if not all healing surges), one of them thrusts his sword through the other guy and drops him.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 06, 2008 - 4:34PM
#44
|
Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2007
|
When was the last time you played a game and everyone felt that the "funnest" part of the session was camping after every encounter? There's still a need for downtime and those can be fun for character development and interaction.
I wasn't talking about camping after every single encounter, I'm fine with getting some hp back after some battle rest, 5-min coffee break. But on the flip side, there seems to be no such thing as actual injury in this game. After a few min of rest, they are as good as they were 20 arrows ago, doesn't seem like much of a challenge.
Part of the feel used to be that the low-lvl party would go back to town in actual need of some help and healing at the end of a adventure. Setting up some interaction with the locals, which often leads to more adventure...
Now it seems the PC never suffer from anything worse than a paper cut, if that. Without the aid of any magic or first aid, the PC is at 100% effectiveness with just few hours rest. Seems more like a comic book than fantasy to me.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 06, 2008 - 4:34PM
#45
|
Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2007
|
There have been some people posting on how 'un real' it feels having various classes be responsible to a certain extent for their choices on healing and the amount of healing.
The common accusation is that this results in characters 'recovering' from what should be bloody debilitating wounds.
I ask thus a question;
When was the last time that you complained that a Cleric had too many healing spells in 3e or earlier editions?
If the problem is the amount of healing that gives an 'un real' feel to combats then the complaint should hold just as much ground in 3e and earlier editions where clerics, wands of healing, and potions of healing passed out healing like boxes of smarties.
In 3e, I have often seen groups very early on pool resources for a 50 charge wand of healing or carrying 10 or more potions of healing each.
At least with the healing surges that require some component to activate there is actually a more firm limit on the total healing in a day a person can receive instead of the open ended approach that a few wands of healing provided.
Note: I expect any wands or potions of healing will likely just allow more opportunities to access the total number of healing surges inside of a combat instead of giving 'free surges of healing' like the daily power on the dwarven plate provides (which I think will be more the exception then the regular rule).
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 06, 2008 - 7:40PM
#46
|
Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2008
|
If the idea of healing to full after a 6-hour rest bothers you, there are a couple options:
You can rule that the party healer calls on whatever his source of power is to heal the party overnight. It's a magical world, after all.
You can deny the party full healing. In 3.x, characters got back only a certain number of HP overnight. Find a number that suits you and use it.
Similarly, if you find that Healing Surges are more powerful than you like, simply limit the amount they heal. They're set by default to 25%, I understand, but you could use anything you like.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 06, 2008 - 8:45PM
#47
|
Date Joined:
Sep 10, 2007
|
Seems more like a comic book than fantasy to me.
I fail to see the difference between the two.
And excuse the hyperbole in the previous post, I don't expect people to camp after every encounter.
There is still a need to camp I feel, even with the healing surges.
Scenario:
The groups trap monkey fails his perception roll and stumbles through an acid spray trap. "Woops!" The entire group gets doused in acid, they lose a few scrolls, they lost some key items, and everyone recoils and screams in agony, followed shortly by slapping him upside the head.
"Hey, what's that noise?" He asks more to himself then the group, finally making a perception check. There's a loud ringing echoing up from the dungeon. A roar resembling a primordial scream that makes the very walls tremble at it's ferocity. The natural walls and ceiling begin to quake as loose debris shakes loose from the natural hall way. Heavy thuds echo up over the ringing until a huge ogre emerges from the unnatural darkness narrowly missing the trap monkey and screaming in frustration at the group.
"Steel yourselves lad's! We got a bigg'un t'fell a'fore we can break out those good time lagers!" Shouts the self appointed Dwarven leader of the group.
I can't think of a more crucial need for healing surges then in that point of time. Something that they're trying to offer that does offer more action and excitement for the player and DM.
What the need for resting will do, is let every one take stock of who's got what, what's been damaged, and just how screwed they are. There's very little need to rest in 4e as it stands now. I think the game is better for it. But that's just my opinion. There's nothing that says you can't house rule how often or how effective healing surges are.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 06, 2008 - 9:44PM
#48
|
Date Joined:
Feb 12, 2004
|
Another way to think of it:
Characters in 4e don't only have more HP, they have a lot more. However, they normally only have access to a certain amount of it per fight. A few minor wounds spread out over several hours isn't that dibilitating, but those same minor wounds all at once during strenuous activity have a cumulative effect in terms of pain and fatigue.
A 'Second Wind' is just that - gathering yourself, pushing through, and coming back after a quick breather with the same kind of renewed spirit as you would have from a short rest. However, it doesn't actually 'heal' your hit points - after all, you still have fewer healing surges available to you that day. In that sense, your 'max hp' for that day are still less then they were before you used the second wind. This is the same for any use of the healing surge, whether it's from potions or from clerical prayers or resting five minutes. The wounds are still there, your energy is less, but your vitality for the actions at hand are still good - until you run out of healing surges.
Of course, this doesn't solve the issue of fully healing from a single nights sleep. While this is a very convenient conceit from a gamists perspective, and is not functionally different from most levels of 3e play (with a cleric, most parties are at most 2 nights away from full health instead of one, and any party with a CLW wand is at most 5 minutes from full HP at any given time), its still a bit of a stretch conceptually.
Necromancy: Friendship is MagicSpoiler:
Show
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 07, 2008 - 8:30AM
#49
|
Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2006
|
Do we know if all clerical heal spells are going to work like the Healing Word ability? I find it kind of sad that the number of times a cleric can heal you depends on how often you could heal yourself. Sure you get some extra but still if my fighter blew through his surges after a few tough fights and the cleric is like "sorry but you got nothing left" I would wonder at his usefulness to me.
The horrible truth - "Their new marketing strategy (Evergreen Essentials) pretty much requires that anything new that sees print refer back almost exclusively to Essentials." Tony Vargas
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Mar 07, 2008 - 9:25AM
#50
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
They way I see it, now of course I could be wrong but to me it makes sense, once you hit the 'bloodied' condition, that's when you've started taking the nasty wounds. Everything before that is going to be in the area of strained muscles, bumps, bruises, minor lacerations, etc. Anything past bloodied is going to the gushers, the gaping wounds and such.
That makes for good drama in an action scene, but the problem with that is that realistically sometimes the first strike is actually the deadly one. Being forced to whittle down until Bloodied-or-so takes away that possibility of just landing a good first strike. I love the game overall, but I guess I just prefer more realistic ruling.
|
|
|
