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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 3:55AM
#431
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2003
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This is something that I'm fine with not doing, actually. You take a few hits, such that you're bruised and bleeding a little, but then you find an inner surge of strength and are able to push yourself back up to full operating capacity (so to speak.) You're visibly wounded, but you've got some adrenaline going now, and the determination to not succumb to the pain.
If you see it that way, Healing Surges should grant temporal hp. You get an extra boost of adrenaline, all right. But the adrenaline drains away after the fight, so you loose the extra hp.
I wouldn't have a problem with that. In fact, it would be easier to modify the system this way than get rid off Healing Surges entirely, which I planned to do at first.
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 5:47AM
#432
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
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You know. Healing surges are an action. If you want to use that action with your fighter, to treat your wounds, that's more than okay with me. I'm reminded of playing football, when my teamates would cover their cuts and scrapes with sand from the feild as a quick fix. A fighter could tie off his shirt as a bandage, use a healing balm he always keeps on his person, break the arrows off. A ranger could do all sorts of stuff too, I imagine a leaf covered in goo. The cleric might just pray his personal devotion. Considering how few HP 4E charaters have, physically healing 25% of it in six seconds isn't really that far off.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 6:10AM
#433
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2005
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You know. Healing surges are an action. If you want to use that action with your fighter, to treat your wounds, that's more than okay with me. I'm reminded of playing football, when my teamates would cover their cuts and scrapes with sand from the feild as a quick fix. A fighter could tie off his shirt as a bandage, use a healing balm he always keeps on his person, break the arrows off. A ranger could do all sorts of stuff too, I imagine a leaf covered in goo. The cleric might just pray his personal devotion. Considering how few HP 4E charaters have, physically healing 25% of it in six seconds isn't really that far off.
I'd probably be OK with that too, except what you describe would be a function of the Heal skill. Using bandages, covering cuts, applying a balm or leaf goo. These all seem like skillful acts. But Healing Surges are innate to everyone (at least to all PCs) regardless of their skills in medicine or first aid. The 'covering with sand' tactic is maybe the only case where no skill is required.
@NthDegree256: If I'm to get over this mental block that makes me go 'bleh' when I read about Healing Surges, I guess I'll have to adopt your viewpoint. And since Healing Surges are a pretty key feature to 4e, it's almost like a love it or leave it proposition. Ultimately, I think I can have fun with the system, healing surges and all, but I am still eager to see how the PHB couches its terms.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 6:57AM
#434
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2005
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Healing Surges aren't actions. You can't "healing surge" in 4e.
You can use "Second Wind" which is an ability which uses a healing surge to get back into the fight. People don't have an innate capacity to magically heal themselves, they have a limit to the amount of healing/rousing their body can take, and they are capable of occasionally getting a second wind, which goes against that total.
A lot of the conceptual issues have is with the idea of healing surging", when healing surges are a resource, not an ability, and Second Wind, which makes complete sense, isn't brought up.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 7:00AM
#435
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2004
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I don't know man. Even I can use Neosporin, and I have no training.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, ever 4E charater esentially gets the heal skill. They might not get the +5, but I don't think any charater can't use it at all. And they all get better at it as they go up in level. Couldn't using a Second Wind just be a DC 0 use?
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 8:40AM
#436
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2005
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I don't know man. Even I can use Neosporin, and I have no training.
Also, if I'm not mistaken, ever 4E charater esentially gets the heal skill. They might not get the +5, but I don't think any charater can't use it at all. And they all get better at it as they go up in level. Couldn't using a Second Wind just be a DC 0 use?
::shrug:: From a "technical" standpoint, it depends on what applications of Heal can be used untrained (characters in Saga Edition and - presumably - 4E do get better at untrained skills as they level, but there are still distinctions between trained and untrained uses of a skill.)
Flavor-wise, I plan on some of my Second Winds being described like that. They take a standard action, after all, which feels like enough time to "pull the arrow out of my upper arm," or "grit my teeth, rip off a piece of clothing, and quickly knot it around my leg."
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 8:42AM
#437
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2005
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If you see it that way, Healing Surges should grant temporal hp. You get an extra boost of adrenaline, all right. But the adrenaline drains away after the fight, so you loose the extra hp.
I wouldn't have a problem with that. In fact, it would be easier to modify the system this way than get rid off Healing Surges entirely, which I planned to do at first.
If that works for you, go for it. I personally would prefer to not track temporary HP separately from regular HP if I can avoid it, since it's just a little more overhead.
Healing Surges aren't actions. You can't "healing surge" in 4e.
You can use "Second Wind" which is an ability which uses a healing surge to get back into the fight.
Excellent point. People forget this one quite a bit, it seems.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 9:10AM
#438
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Date Joined:
Sep 10, 2007
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Page 136 of the 3.5 PH says hit points tell you how much punishment you can take before dropping. Later, it describes the concept as being a measure of health. By the first definition, 'punishment' could mean just about anyhting.
Also, keep in mind that ability damage has been removed. That being the case, damage and healing need a much broader definition. This can include demoralization, among other things. If you start to look at it that way, healing surges make more sense. Liken demoralization to WIS or CHA damage. Granted, a sword can't do CHA damage (though it would be funky if it could), but when something hurts, different people feel it different ways at different times.
Think about two people. They both get identical cuts on their arms. One may go on, thinking it's no big deal. The other may stop, finding the pain unbearable. While the damage is virtually the same, there are intangibles that make the situation different to each person. Part of that is represented in the dice roll to randomize damage, but one can also say that the first person used a healing surge to shrug off the pain, while the other didn't.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 23, 2008 - 10:34AM
#439
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2004
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Page 136 of the 3.5 PH says hit points tell you how much punishment you can take before dropping. Later, it describes the concept as being a measure of health. By the first definition, 'punishment' could mean just about anyhting.
And indeed, earlier editions were rather clear on the point of hit points being luck and skill at dodging. What has changed that is that people simply didn't enjoy "The ogre swings his club at you, rolling well enough to bypass your AC (which includes dex), but you dodge away. Loose 12 hp."
A solid "crunch" also ups the heroism feel, at cost of realism. Still, we don't want realism, as much as we say we do. We want heroism, only presented in a way that we can identify with it and pretend it is us..
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