First off, I've passed defaced money many times; I don't deface it myself (other than messing with pennies, but I don't typically pass those, though I think I've spent a few "silver" ones) but people accept it.
I think I was reasonably clear in stating that the $50 dollar bill wouldn't be worth any less if it was defaced. The whole point of my post was that it was still worth $50.
Moreover, by law, they HAVE to accept it in this country unless they have a written, visible policy otherwise.
But they don't HAVE to serve you. They are within their rights to refuse service and kick you out of thier store. You could try taking them to court and claiming discrimination... but I doubt that sort of protection would exist in a medieval environment.
If I go into a grocery store, buy my groceries, am told I need to pay them $50, and give them a $50 bill which has satanic symbols written on it and they won't accept it, then they have forgiven by debt by law.
Sorry, I have no idea what you are saying there...
But more to the point, I'd wager they'd take it
Well, again if it were in a "bible belt" type small town community, I am quite positive they would kick you out of the store.
and with gold coins, they're all the more likely to do so because they are so easily changed into other things.
You appear to be missing the point completely. The value of the bill (or coin) is irrelevant. They refuse to accept it and accept you as a customer because of what it represents. It doesn’t matter if you paid for a $2.00 item with a $50 bill and said “keep the change”, they would still tell you to take a hike, because of what the writing represents and what it says about you.
Maybe you have never seen strong principles, convictions, bigotry, fear or hate in your life, so you just don't realize how much it impacts people's behaviour. Have you never heard the phrase "your money's not good here"?
Does this EVER come up in actual play, outside of players stealing, say, gigantic Egyptianesque sarcophogii?
I'm gonna go with no, here.
Yes, everyone who will buy gems and jewlery will have or need a scale to value something. You're just wrong. This is -reality-; this is how it worked in the middle ages.
It does not take much equipment to melt gold properly, and the average adventurer will have it or be able to easily acquire it.
We're talking about the middle ages here, not the modern era. Please pay attention. In the middle ages, money was made out of precious metals. Period. Quit arguing, you're wrong.
Such as? Name a real world currency from the middle ages which is not made out of a valuable material. Quick.
And please note that bronze contains copper.
Countries mint coins. And you can make up whatever you want for platinum; I personally will just say "its because it is rare and never tarnishes".
What's this about "suspected magical ring"? You know whether or not it is magical via detect magic. Any argument you make about this is wrong. Drop it, you were proven wrong pages ago. Your argument is completely nonsensical.
First off, I've passed defaced money many times; I don't deface it myself (other than messing with pennies, but I don't typically pass those, though I think I've spent a few "silver" ones) but people accept it. Moreover, by law, they HAVE to accept it in this country unless they have a written, visible policy otherwise. If I go into a grocery store, buy my groceries, am told I need to pay them $50, and give them a $50 bill which has satanic symbols written on it and they won't accept it, then they have forgiven by debt by law. But more to the point, I'd wager they'd take it, and with gold coins, they're all the more likely to do so because they are so easily changed into other things.
Note that if they don't believe it is REAL money it is a different story, but people wouldn't likely accept coins they thought to be counterfeit gold-gilted lead coins either.
In good games, yes taking art as a treasure choice is present. Now if you run a prewritten published adventure, then odds are the most likely thing you will find is coins. If you play with a DM that doesn't know how to give art as treasure you will end up with mostly coins. If you have set forth to the DM you will not take art objects, odds are you will later find only coins.
The DM reads the players the first few times they play to see what things they prefer to find in treasure piles. Then according to the alloted value of treasure, the DM will add things that should make the player want to take them, or be more happy to take them. Those wanting gold will find enough amount of it, those wanting art will liekyl find that as well.
In the event a mixed treasure haul and some sort of group treaure pool, just make it know you want the art and not its GP value in coins when the time comes to split it up. If the DM has not already claimed a price for it, then the group can agree upon its apprasal and if fiting that would be a portion of your own share. For things found along the way, then you keep what you kill; so to speak. Pick up a gold candlestick from a desk then you should get to keep it as it wasn't part of an encounter treasure. Pick up 3 sacks of gold from a room no other player knew existed then that should be divided up amongst the group rather than being overly greedy.
Are you trying to tell me every inhabitant in every D&D world will have a set of scales and weights to measure everything? I know otherwise. Anyone who would be willing to buy gems or jewelry does not have these things always.
A good hot fire wil melt gold, but how do you get it up off the ground from the firepit? How often do PCs carry around hydrochloric acid in order to remove impurities from/clean gold while I am asking these other things?
Precious to whom? Who says all games of D&D are set in the middle ages of Earth? There are olde times in history that D&D can fit into. In fact, ones in which the magic and such would fit better into than 1200 AD of Shakespeare.
Older times, more ancient times hold richer prospects for D&D worlds. Times explicity where current world religions are no so abundant if you will. Times with less Christianity and more Pagan influences even lend better to the idea of the new arcane and divine magic rituals mentioned with the new edition of D&D.
Copper is not a precious metal. It was not suitable for making weapons once steel came along, and was abundant enouhg than it had very little uses. That is the reason it was used for coins. No other real value, lots of it were on hand, easy to mint.... There are plenty of monetary systems that didn't even use coins for money but other thing. Mentioning hacksilver will most likely spur you into argueing that it is a precious metal, but it wa at the time a easy metal to deal with. Cultures had other types of stone coins, and odd types of money formt he past. A little research into the rich history of currency will show many different systems from Earths past. Again I wonder why you are stuck in the middle ages? Just because our histroy used something does not mean a D&D world will develop in the same way. What about porcelain or other types of pottery coins? It is not metal but can be easily made and has value. Bone, lead, marble... so many thing that could be made into coins when metal is not there. To those without money all things were valueable even life. In your middle ages of this world lives were spent as money where children were often sold off to a lord as servants in order to pay a landowners debts. How many children would you carry in your treasure haul over some jewelry?
Lead coins is a favorite of mine that was used in Rome.
If countries are making the coins then again you have the problem with one country not accepting anothers coins.
Does the US market readily accept the Canadian penny? they look so similar they are taken without notice in most places, but it doesn't make it legal currency in the US.
So you think all persons at all times and level, even those without levels, will be able to use detect magic? I do not think this will be so.
The last part is not a quote form me, but I will address it none the less.
I have on occasion had bent or otherwise damaged coins. Sometimes I even needed to use those to purchase things form Wal*Mart. The cashier did not want to take then as money, but just take them as damged. I assure you the manager did not like what I had to say to them about their cashiers attempted theft from me, and reminding them that they must accept all legal US currency. the manager had no problem with the coins but was not happy with the cashier trying to steal my money for whatever reason or not having the sense to accept a legal coin just because it was slightly bent of dented. Having not ever seen that cashier when I went back, I can only assume she was transfered to a ddepartment she was able to handle, whereas she was unable to handle dealings with money.
The authorities in real life and D&D are more than welcome to get involved in disputes of fraud, conterfieting, and money in general.
I think in all your rude remarks, that you jsut have a way you want things to be and are not so open-minded to see other peoples opinons or styles of play as valid. This is a sad thing for a D&D player as the people you may meet that play will have many different various ideas. You should be more open to accept that D&D is not jsut the middle ages of Earth, other players have the right to choose different thing from their games than you do, and that your way of playing is not right for all people. I am thankful you are not a member of a company making games, and precisely not one making D&D.
You are more than welcome to tailor D&D to suit your needs, jsut as all others are to suit their own. But that does not extend the right to you to tell others their ideas are wrong jsut because you disagree with them. The case remains that jewelry can weigh less and be more valueable than coins, and whether you like it or not; some will choose jewelry and gems over tkaing coins as treasure. This includes rings that are suspected and not identified as being magical in nature.
With this ring rule and the new rings special nature, what is to say that detect magic will even work to identify rings as such?
Sorry, I have no idea what you are saying there...
If you give me a product or service, demand payment for it, and I pay you in legal US tender (a $50 bill in this case), unless you have specifically stated you won't accept this sort of payment, you're obligated to do so under the law. If you refuse payment in such, then you have said that I don't need to pay you, under the law, and discharged my debt.
Note that if you do not BELIEVE the object to be legal tender (if, for instance, you thought my $50 was counterfeit) then no, you wouldn't be obligated to accept my payment.
Maybe you have never seen strong principles, convictions, bigotry, fear or hate in your life, so you just don't realize how much it impacts people's behaviour. Have you never heard the phrase "your money's not good here"?
Maybe you've never heard of the golden rule, or the greed of men. But, more to the point, that is typically based on who I am, not on my money.
In good games, yes taking art as a treasure choice is present. Now if you run a prewritten published adventure, then odds are the most likely thing you will find is coins. If you play with a DM that doesn't know how to give art as treasure you will end up with mostly coins. If you have set forth to the DM you will not take art objects, odds are you will later find only coins.
You did not read/understand my post. This is at least the second, if not third or fourth, time you have failed to do so. Before responding again, please review my post and make an attempt at comprehending it. You just aren't understanding what we're saying.
Are you trying to tell me every inhabitant in every D&D world will have a set of scales and weights to measure everything? I know otherwise. Anyone who would be willing to buy gems or jewelry does not have these things always.
Not everyone, but everyone willing/able to pay full price on anything worth more than a few gold pieces is going to have such (or at a minimum, access to such).
A good hot fire wil melt gold, but how do you get it up off the ground from the firepit? How often do PCs carry around hydrochloric acid in order to remove impurities from/clean gold while I am asking these other things?
Do you not understand how to melt gold?
Have you ever seen The Patriot?
The way he melted the tin soldiers in that movie is pretty much how I'd do it.
Precious to whom? Who says all games of D&D are set in the middle ages of Earth? There are olde times in history that D&D can fit into. In fact, ones in which the magic and such would fit better into than 1200 AD of Shakespeare.
The premise of the game, that's what says that all games are set in fantastic middle ages type places. And coins were made of precious metals up until very recently; paper money, for a very long time, represented some amount of a precious metal somewhere, hence "gold standard" and "silver standard". Also worth noting, the earliest paper money in Europe I'm aware of dates from the 16th century, well after the generally assumed period for D&D game periods in terms of technology/setting.
Older times, more ancient times hold richer prospects for D&D worlds. Times explicity where current world religions are no so abundant if you will. Times with less Christianity and more Pagan influences even lend better to the idea of the new arcane and divine magic rituals mentioned with the new edition of D&D.
No, actually, the game assumes a pseudo-midieval setting, and indeed, if you actually look at the setup of the pantheon, the world actually is unified under a single religion with many cults, ALA Greek or Roman pantheon, with some random other cults for various barbaric civilizations.
Copper is not a precious metal. It was not suitable for making weapons once steel came along, and was abundant enouhg than it had very little uses. That is the reason it was used for coins. No other real value, lots of it were on hand, easy to mint.... There are plenty of monetary systems that didn't even use coins for money but other thing. Mentioning hacksilver will most likely spur you into argueing that it is a precious metal, but it wa at the time a easy metal to deal with. Cultures had other types of stone coins, and odd types of money formt he past. A little research into the rich history of currency will show many different systems from Earths past. Again I wonder why you are stuck in the middle ages? Just because our histroy used something does not mean a D&D world will develop in the same way. What about porcelain or other types of pottery coins? It is not metal but can be easily made and has value. Bone, lead, marble... so many thing that could be made into coins when metal is not there. To those without money all things were valueable even life. In your middle ages of this world lives were spent as money where children were often sold off to a lord as servants in order to pay a landowners debts. How many children would you carry in your treasure haul over some jewelry?
You're wrong on several fronts. The most valuable metals, traditionally, are things like gold and silver - they are relatively rare and valuable, but pretty much useless for anything practical. Yeah, they're useful now, but they weren't particularly useful back then, because there wasn't nearly as much you could do with them. They looked pretty, though, and didn't tarnish as much as other metals, which is probably why they were considered valuable. The only real uses of them, back in the day, was to be used in things which needed not to tarnish - you could use sterling silver in plates and similar tableware because it wouldn't tarnish or rust or anything. They were also vaugely useful in early alchemy, but that wasn't the driver of the price of these metals. They were valuable because, quite simply put, they were pretty.
Saying that copper was not very useful, however, is just outright wrong. Copper is an incredibly useful material, and has been so for a very long time - it is much harder than silver and gold, and it looks good, so it was often used for ornamental purposes on things which it wasn't practical to use the softer metals on.
But, more to the point, copper is actually very useful for things other than ornamentation, even in a primitive world, especially in the form of bronze. It is more resistant to corrosion than steel and iron, thus making it much better as a piping material than either of those. It also is better on ships because it doesn't corrode as badly with exposure to seawater. It is pretty strong as well, and less brittle than iron. It doesn't cause much friction, and is used for stuff like springs and bearings. It can also be used to make hammers and the like.
Really, you can use bronze for a huge variety of things, and it has better material properties than iron, and some better material properties than steel. It is more resistant to corrosion and is quite strong, and isn't brittle. All in all, it is a very versatile material, which is why you'll find tons of things made out of bronze and copper from the middle ages.
You really didn't do your research if you didn't think it was useful for much besides coinage, because the reality is that steel doesn't superscede bronze in every way; we STILL use tons of stuff made out of bronze, and it isn't because iron is too expensive.
Does the US market readily accept the Canadian penny? they look so similar they are taken without notice in most places, but it doesn't make it legal currency in the US.
No, but A) the canadian penny is not inherently valuable (no modern money is) and B) our modern rules for money are very different. But in places where you regularly deal in foreign coinage, you can, in fact, pass it, and there are moneychangers for a reason.
So you think all persons at all times and level, even those without levels, will be able to use detect magic? I do not think this will be so.
All player character groups will be able to, and those without levels (NPCs) would be able to find someone who could.
With this ring rule and the new rings special nature, what is to say that detect magic will even work to identify rings as such?
If you give me a product or service, demand payment for it, and I pay you in legal US tender (a $50 bill in this case), unless you have specifically stated you won't accept this sort of payment, you're obligated to do so under the law. If you refuse payment in such, then you have said that I don't need to pay you, under the law, and discharged my debt.
Ok, that makes sense, but your comment in the previous post used certain phrases that didn't make sense. It still isn't relevant to the behaviour of the person in my scenario, but I see where you are coming from.
Note that if you do not BELIEVE the object to be legal tender (if, for instance, you thought my $50 was counterfeit) then no, you wouldn't be obligated to accept my payment.
yes we agree on that.
Maybe you've never heard of the golden rule, or the greed of men.
I have heard of those things, and I agree that they exist... I'm just aware that they don't always supersede bigotry and superstition. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't... but you somehow seem to be under the impression that they always do.
But, more to the point, that is typically based on who I am, not on my money.
Exactly. It is based on who you are, not based on the money. The person is turning you away from the store because you repulse them. The thing is though, it is the money that indicates who you are, and anybody using that money would be treated the same way. As such, the vendor does not want that money, because he does not want to be tagged with the stigma associated with it.
Take a highly supresticious person as an example. Lets say you offered them a $50 for free... as a gift. If they believed that the money was cursed, they wouldn't accept it. It is still worth $50, but they don't want to have anything to do with it.
Not everyone, but everyone willing/able to pay full price on anything worth more than a few gold pieces is going to have such (or at a minimum, access to such).
I have surely not read all of this one, and will point out why in response to this section of it.
It is very hard to read your posts as they are filled with uncited parts from other peoples quotes. You must go back and read pages worth to just figure out who you are replying to. If your post were made in a way in which they were easier to read, then maybe more people would be able to udnerstand what you are saying and read it in context to the author in which you are replying.
to this section you quoted above in specific, I did read your post, and my own which responded to a question.
"Does this ever come up in the game except when taking some Egyptian....."
Yes, taking jewelry over coins does come up in games. It may not be something that has come up in your games, as I noted the reasons why in the part you actually quoted from me.
Because you do not see it happen in games, it is as I said, you and your group's playstyle to have coins then. Other groups may just as likely to enjoy finding small art object other than coins.
There is no real table that ever works in any D&D product that says what should be found in any treasure collection for a monster or other opponent. The only reasonable way to give treasure based on a monster or opponent would be simply yhis:
How much is magical if any? % magical =? What is the total value of the treasure? GP value =
% magical * GP value = %magical GP value
The DM should then place the appropriate magic items for his player party to find in the treasure to fit them within his game.
The DM should them add other treasure in the form of anything that opponent would have collected to reach to total GP value of the treasure. Some may not collect coins at all, other may collect only coins. That flavor is based on the game world, and not so much on the rules. If the goblins in your game love to collect gold ccoins then they can. If, in my game, the goblins prefer to collect dinnerware such as pitchers, goblets, or just jewelry then they can.
I think you are bound so much by the letter of the book you may be unable to see beyond it and create you own D&D world? If not I do not understand why you cannot see that treasure does not have to always and only be coins.
Maybe you think that a town is always ready at hand to get to to sort out these treasures.
I originally used one pound worht of each so it could be scaled at the reader's descredtion to whatever size they wish to see the value of taking things like rings, and how easy it could be done in interest of dinging those that are so special that make them magical, and then whatever reason that they can only be used at a certain level.
Remembering what this thread is about, I stated that having rings unlike other magic items means that rings are in a sense more precious when magical than other magical items.
It could be said that some people would steal every sword because it could be magical. Well this is not so easy a thing to see in the game terms. Someone carying hundreds of swords would be noticed. The weight would be an issue as well.
Rings like other jewelry have a higher price value at a smaller size. Taking rings then as suspect magic items would not be that hard, and an easier thing to get away with than hauling away lots of swords. A normal piece of jewelry can equal or exceed a swords value. There are also more people likely to buy jewelry (like rings) than would buy swords.
Any merchant is apt to buy some jewelry if they think they could sell it somewhere else. Not every merchant will deal in swords. Blacksmiths that can melt down jewelry themselves for use of the metals in other things, and do whatever with any gems set wtithin would also be likely to accept jewelry for payment.
These items do not have the problem of coins, whereas, a certain coin not being legal in one region would not allow you to be able to spend it, and may even cause other problems possessing it.
You on instinct will not just hand out jewelry as payment everywhere you go, but places you think are likely to accept it. Coins would be instinctively used for payment, and be potential to reveal those problems as mentioned with them.
You make too many assumptions on the way other people play, based on how you play. This is evident in your constant insistance that all people have scales and weights to measure everything. In your own reference to middle ages, you should note this was not always the case, and even when many people in an area had a system to measure things out, how did you know there scales were correct and not suspect of tampering.
How many adventurers cary around a set of scales at all times?
You fail to see the other possibilities that a good game should provide for. D&D should be open to allow those playing it to choose whether or not to use certain things that define a world. They have currently destroyed and then reconstructed the cosmology. They have creted something to capture the pieces of those dead gods with the "Epic Binders". They are trying to redifine what is core. They are trying to redifine the function of a normal piece of equipment that had its own place in peoples imaginations. The magic ring is not intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast. There are plenty of other sources that show favor to the idea of magic rings. They have the right to change their game or create a new one adding new things to it. They do not have the right to be loved by all gamers for all the changes. They do not have the right to think all gamers must agre with the changes. They do not have the right to tell all gamers that do not play by their rules that they are playing wrong (which was a view expressed in early Dragon Magazine issues by someone that did not go over so well).
The big one is they do not have the right to waste the sharholders money. At such a time as the shareholders feel the buying public is not happy with the products made, and executive decision may be made that the company or product line gets a reduction in development budget, or even in number of employees.
This last one is in part that the game should allow for all options of play. The happier the buying public is, then the happy the shareholders will be with increased divendens, and the more budget the product line will get, and many even some increased wages for those working on that line.
The choice of using coins or jewelry for treasure is not something the game can tell all the players to use. Likewise this silly idea presented so far behind this ring rule is also something that apparently players will NOT accept willingly without questioning. There is just no reason for it to be a part of the core of the game. Being a part of the core and connected to so many other aspects of the game and the systems within means that discarding it could cause other problems with the game. Players should have the right to choose what treasure they give out when, and what types of magic items they want to have.
Not a WotC choice of how the players should play. Not the decision of Titanium Dragon as to how all players choose to play. The choice belongs to the individual plauers.
If you are so inclined to use this new ring rule and enjoy it then so be it. It had darn well better be not tied to anything real important in the overall design of the new edition that it cannot be removed easily, so those not so inclined to use it can discard it as the nonsense it is.
Because they've said it will.
They do not run my games, or very many games of the people that play D&D. The majority of people who play D&D will never want "them" to run their games on a constant basis. They do not know all the players taste as is evident with the entirety of the concern forum. They have no real say in how I play my games.
They could put all the silly rules they want in the RPGA events and it not affect those who do not play in them. Any effort to ster intellectual property right in their favor with strange new rules and the presentation of them will not change the way some people want to play just because a new rule says so. "They" are not the Gods of D&D, only the current copyright holders. As copyright holders change hand then things also may change as has happened already.
They do not make my decisions. They do not know me. I don't even want to know them with the childish ideas they come up with I doubt I would even want "them" in a game I am playing. This ring rule is just some childish fit related to how rings worked in the past and upset someone. That is the only reaon I can see behind it. I will not blindly put my trust into a game designer that has a temper tantrum over something in the game and thinks it must be changed to purify their past greivances with it.
There is the possibility of gold stamped by Country X isn't accepted in Country Y... purely for political reasons. e.g. if there is a major rivalry, or a war between the two countries. Having coins from the other country might be seen as treason, or make people highly suspicious that you are a spy. Think of Cold War type tension.
This doesn't seem likely, particularly if you're in a bloody war and need all the gold you can get. More likely if country X didn't like the gold of country Y in circulation, they'd just require merchants to exchange it so the government can melt it down and mint their own coins from it. They wouldn't turn it away. And every foreign coin you can take in is less gold that your enemy has to work with...
This doesn't seem likely, particularly if you're in a bloody war and need all the gold you can get. More likely if country X didn't like the gold of country Y in circulation, they'd just require merchants to exchange it so the government can melt it down and mint their own coins from it. They wouldn't turn it away. And every foreign coin you can take in is less gold that your enemy has to work with...
Look at it no only in the value of the gold itself, but the fact someone possessing the gold may be from the other country. The could be a spy in the fearful eyes of the common man, and may be seen as someone less than adequate to deal with for various reasons.
Harbouring spies, and just general fear during war and its irrational behavoir can cause all kinds of problems.
Yes, taking jewelry over coins does come up in games. It may not be something that has come up in your games, as I noted the reasons why in the part you actually quoted from me.
The reason this doesn't come up in my games is typically Bags of Holding and Portable Holes - the people I play with are very fond of their extradimensional space. There also are spells like Tenser's Floating Disk.
It takes a very, very large amount of weight of treasure before players have to make real choices, and I simply don't hand out that much treasure on too regular of a basis.
There is no real table that ever works in any D&D product that says what should be found in any treasure collection for a monster or other opponent.
There most certainly are such tables. 2e was full of them, and 3e still has them. I seldom use them, but they are there.
Maybe you think that a town is always ready at hand to get to to sort out these treasures.
It is when you have Teleport.
Rings like other jewelry have a higher price value at a smaller size. Taking rings then as suspect magic items would not be that hard, and an easier thing to get away with than hauling away lots of swords. A normal piece of jewelry can equal or exceed a swords value. There are also more people likely to buy jewelry (like rings) than would buy swords.
These items do not have the problem of coins, whereas, a certain coin not being legal in one region would not allow you to be able to spend it, and may even cause other problems possessing it.
If you can melt down jewelery, you can melt down coins. So you just proved yourself wrong.
Moreover, you're making the completely invalid assumption that foreign jewelery is going to sell better than foreign coins. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to expect this.
And your whole "it might be magical" argument makes no sense. It is totally wrong. There is no "might". It either is, or it isn't. Your brain latched onto it for no reason; it is wrong. You need to let it go. You aren't thinking about it logically; people are going to be able to detect magic on the ring and tell.
You on instinct will not just hand out jewelry as payment everywhere you go, but places you think are likely to accept it. Coins would be instinctively used for payment, and be potential to reveal those problems as mentioned with them.
No. I never said I don't hand out jewelry. I hand it out fairly often. Your issue is that you are not even arguing with me anymore, but some imaginary, nonexistant person. You aren't reading my posts, you can't understand my posts. You are making stuff up. You need to either stop responding to me or look at what I'm actually saying and try to understand it. You are doing neither.
You make too many assumptions on the way other people play, based on how you play. This is evident in your constant insistance that all people have scales and weights to measure everything. In your own reference to middle ages, you should note this was not always the case, and even when many people in an area had a system to measure things out, how did you know there scales were correct and not suspect of tampering.
How many adventurers cary around a set of scales at all times?
If a merchant is going to be willing to buy a ring or a similar object made out of precious metals, then they'll definitely have a scale or have one they can use in order to weigh it. This is reality. If you do not understand this, if you do not get this, then you have a problem. And not every merchant IS going to have a scale - but most merchants aren't just going to buy rings off of some random group of heavily armed people, either, given that most likely you are bandits and stole the ring off of someone's dead body, and they probably don't have enough money to buy your ring anyway.
It is you who are ignoring reality. Your arguments are nonsense. And as for crooked scales... these certainly exist. That's why you might carry around a scale of your own. If you think a merchant is using crooked scales, then you don't do business with them.
And you fail to understand the most important point of all: per the actual rules of the game, all of this just doesn't matter. You can pawn off jewelery, art objects, coins, and gems at full price anywhere you go that has enough money to pay for them. Period. That's how the rules work.
99+% of all D&D players simply do not care about this level of detail, and it is apparent that you, who claim to do so, don't actually know anything about how things worked in the middle ages.
You fail to see the other possibilities that a good game should provide for. D&D should be open to allow those playing it to choose whether or not to use certain things that define a world. They have currently destroyed and then reconstructed the cosmology. They have creted something to capture the pieces of those dead gods with the "Epic Binders". They are trying to redifine what is core. They are trying to redifine the function of a normal piece of equipment that had its own place in peoples imaginations. The magic ring is not intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast. There are plenty of other sources that show favor to the idea of magic rings. They have the right to change their game or create a new one adding new things to it. They do not have the right to be loved by all gamers for all the changes. They do not have the right to think all gamers must agre with the changes. They do not have the right to tell all gamers that do not play by their rules that they are playing wrong (which was a view expressed in early Dragon Magazine issues by someone that did not go over so well).
Epic Binders are 21st+ level Binder class characters. They're a 3.5 edition class. Please read stuff before you go off about it.
They aren't "trying" to redefine core; core has meant all non-campaign specific stuff since the end of 2e. You simply haven't noticed.
And if you don't play by the rules they set forth, then you're likely to have problems. But they won't stop you and won't tell you you're wrong for doing it.
This last one is in part that the game should allow for all options of play. The happier the buying public is, then the happy the shareholders will be with increased divendens, and the more budget the product line will get, and many even some increased wages for those working on that line.
No RPG system can allow for "all options of play", because, quite simply put, each sort of play will require different things, and these things are mutually exclusive.
The choice of using coins or jewelry for treasure is not something the game can tell all the players to use. Likewise this silly idea presented so far behind this ring rule is also something that apparently players will NOT accept willingly without questioning. There is just no reason for it to be a part of the core of the game. Being a part of the core and connected to so many other aspects of the game and the systems within means that discarding it could cause other problems with the game. Players should have the right to choose what treasure they give out when, and what types of magic items they want to have.
Yes there is. I and others have explained that there is. You simply have failed to read/understand why it is necessary.
1) Balance. 2) Making rings more interesting. 3) Making rings more special and unique.
These are all very good reasons. They need to make a stand, and they made it. Your inability to comprehend this does not make it wrong.
You aren't reading what I'm saying.
You aren't reading what WotC is saying.
You don't understand any of what either myself or WotC is saying.
I was under the impression that the magic items level limits where based more on a metagame perspective, to give a DM a better guide on what to put in a dungeon.
Merchants are not the only people that may buy jewelry.
99%? I find your numebrs to be staggeringly implausible. If people did not care about the level of detail, then that is where the problem with new edition is, and maybe a reason many people have a problem with the details about the new edition.
You are more than welcome to run your arcade style D&D, but it does not mean everyone just wants some hack-n-slash Diablo D&D.
