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DivineDragoonXD wrote:

Seriously this is how it comes down.

People who dont want to go to 4th Edition there is a solution: DONT

Yet if you still have to prove you grew balls and try to bash a game you havent even played yet go back to your mothers teat where your opinion is more appreciated.

Everyone is crying saying "wah wah wah, my 3.5 rules arent compatible with 4th Edition wah wah wah", so what DONT PLAY, dont ruin the experience for those of us who actually are excited about a new project.

People are sayin "Oh just another MMO", well I can say that about all you WoW players because before WoW there was Dark Age of Camelot and Everquest. I could easily bash WoW and say O just another MMO but I dont because once again a great mind has made up another game that was succesful.

I dont even complain that my FFXI character donsnt work in WoW I deal with it an move on, why? Because it is a new experience.
I dont intend to put anyone down, Im just sick of finding degrading critisizm instead of CONTRUCTIVE critisizm. Im willing to put my account on the line for a game that I love so much yet everyone is bashing it. I cant even come on the boards without hearing f*ck 4thE.

Once again I apologize to anyone I have offended for that was not my intention, it was merely to educate these 2nd grade debates.

So please if you dont have much faith in 4E, dont b*tch about it and please continue playing 3.5, the more power to you.

I hear what you're saying. There is indeed a lot of emotion involved, on both sides of the discussion. As fruitless as some arguements can be, I take heart in the that they demonstrate the level of passion we gamers have for our hobby. When we have an opinion, we typically lay it out there for all to see, occassionally not being very careful with our choice of words.

When I first read the above, my own emotional mind took it to mean something that is surely not intended. Here is how my initial reading would summarize it: "If you don't want to switch, fine, just keep on playing the old 3.5. Now shut up and go away."

While I'm sure you don't intend to convey a message like this, I expect many to take it this way.

VagrantWhisper wrote:

So what you're saying is; "Everyone else's opinion sucks, except for your yours" a.k.a ; You think your sh*t don't stink.

For someone such as yourself, I highly recommend How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

As for myself I highly appreciate that there is passionate debate on both sides of the fence since I can likely theorize accurately that it is the same passionate debate in the 3.x era that resulted in your 4E to begin with.

If we were all sheep no one would have complained, then nothing would have changed, and you wouldn't have 4E to look forward to.

I definitly DO NOT think everyone elses opinions suck. I come to the boards to discus issue with fellow gamers and appreciate their input but when it comes to that I rarely come here anymore because everyone is talking to negitivly. Everyone should be uniting for we share a common hobby, not splitting ourselves into 2 diffrent factions (the 3.5ers and 4Eers). I come to discuss DnD in general with fellow gamers, not which Edition is better. Each Edition had its moments, 1st was the edition that got everyone at a table to have some fun, 2nd continued to expand the rules to a degree that DMs didnt have to figure out if you were allowed to do a certain action. 3rd Edition brough out the best of 1st and 2nd and now we come to 4th which truly allows players to be the heroic characters you see in Lord of the Rings and such. I never hear anything positive about 4th E (which I am peronsally excited to see what 4E can do), only the negetive. People complaining that its a MMO on pen and paper or the rules dont make sense or that 3.5 is not compatible. Everyone realizes these facts, there is no reason to repeat ones self over and over and over and over again. All anyone is doing by bashing 4.0 is making people such as my self leave the boards for a month or so to see if things have calmed down. If you truly have a concern e-mail Wizards about for they are truly the only ones who can do anything about it.

This is NO debate believe me for I have been to a few. This is one group of people who are just plain ol ****** off because a private company decides to create a new product which isnt compatible with the other products the company created. No one is saying you cant play 3.5 anymore, Wizards is just saying "we are moving with the times". Sure maybe you wont get any more 1st party publisher materials but there are plenty of 3rd party publishers who will cash in on all the 3.5 fans.

People are only compaining because Wizards switched to 4.0 not because Wizards wasnt making it.

Everyone has to move on; if you dont want to then play 3.5, bit*hing is not going to make Wizards listen to unless you contact them directly about your conerns, if they dont do anything then they dont care simpley put.

It is very simple, some people play WoW, some Lord of the Rings: SoA just as some people play 3.5 and some people play 4.0. Hell I even have friends who still play 2nd because they think 3.5 is to complicated. I come here as gamer to have civilized conversations with gamers not rants.

By the way I try not to influence people merely educate. Influence implies screwing with someones FREE-WILL which everyone deserves.

Kursk wrote:

Interesting. After having played & Dmed since the 70's and having enthusiastically purchased every new version, I stopped and asked myself why resistance on 4E?

I asked players who had been around as long and they had the same reaction after hearing/seeing data on 4E system. The conclusions were the same. This is the 1st system that changes the flavor of what D&D is, down to the basic assumptions. This is the 1st new edition that I can say is more D&D in name only.

It's not the $ for me. I have shelled out for each new Ed as soon as it hit the shelves. I've done this gladly since '78 for the new DMG. Not so for 4th Ed. It's not progressing anymore.

I dont believe it is more D&D in name only. I believe from what I have gathered that allowed for more EPIC (not in the D&D sense but in the nature of D&D) play. There was an example earlier in the playtesting report mentioning kicking over a table and knocking 2 target prone on the floor; normally in 3.5 you just CANT do it for none of the rules CURRENTLY support such complex actions. I think 4thE gives the oppourtunity (thats all it is) to become more creative. Someone said earlier that "what it takes a rule to decide Ref vs. Str?" and actually it does, because 3.5 isnt balanced for such complex actions where 4thE is yet the rules are simplified to allow non avid DnD gamers to "get it". My girlfriend for example is always looking at me for example because she is never sure she is allowed to do something. In reality she should but the 3.5 rules dont support it and even she is very excited to hear of 4thE (she is new to the gaming hobby) and that she wont be always asking "can I do this" but rather "I AM going to do this".

I AM.

Thats what 4thE is about.

DivineDragoonXD wrote:

There was an example earlier in the playtesting report mentioning kicking over a table and knocking 2 target prone on the floor; normally in 3.5 you just CANT do it for none of the rules CURRENTLY support such complex actions.

My players never have a problem trying to do what they want. They say I try to do X and I adjudicate in a couple of seconds. Been doing it since 1st Ed...