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5 years ago ::
Mar 07, 2008 - 6:39AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Feb 20, 2008
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As I said, just because someone calls it a spear, doesn't mean it actually is.
The original definition of a spear was a 2 handed long pointed stick.
The original definition of a javelin was a 1 handed spear that could also be thrown.
Just as what is known as a Trebuchet, was originally called a catapult for over a thousdand years, until the French rediscovered its design and called it a Trebuchet. Today people call it a Trebuchet, but the Romans were the first to use it, and they called it a catapult. Then its design was lost for about a thousand years, until the French rediscovered it, and named it a Trebuchet.
Type "define Javelin" and "define spear" into Google, and read every entry that results, and you'll see that I am correct. It doesn't matter what the game calls it, whether the game calls it a spear or javelin is irrelevant. But when your argument is based on 'so called' historical information, that simply isn't true, your argument loses credibility.
This is likely the last post I'll make on the subject. A "one handed spear" already exists in the game (actually there are 2). The historically accurate Javelin, and the shortspear... take you pick.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 07, 2008 - 9:36AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2003
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As I said, just because someone calls it a spear, doesn't mean it actually is.
The original definition of a spear was a 2 handed long pointed stick.
The original definition of a javelin was a 1 handed spear that could also be thrown.
Hmm...lets see what the Online Encyclopedia Britannica says...
SPEAR (O. Eng. spere) a weapon of offence. Developed from a sharp-headed stake, the spear may be reckoned, with club, as among the most ancient of weapons. All the prehistoric races handled the spear; The English before the Norman conquest were a spear-bearing race. The freeman's six-foot ashen spear was always near his hand; and its head is found beside the bones of every warrior. The casting javelin was commoner than the bow.
- Originally appearing in Volume V25, Page 616 of the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica
Type "define Javelin" and "define spear" into Google, and read every entry that results, and you'll see that I am correct. It doesn't matter what the game calls it, whether the game calls it a spear or javelin is irrelevant. But when your argument is based on 'so called' historical information, that simply isn't true, your argument loses credibility.
And which 'so called' historical information is wrong, pray tell. I call BS unless you can provide something akin to proof that my 'information' is wrong.
Both from Dictionary.com
spear
-noun
1. a long, stabbing weapon for thrusting or throwing, consisting of a wooden shaft to which a sharp-pointed head, as of iron or steel, is attached.
javelin
–noun
1. a light spear, usually thrown by hand.
Not quite the same thing. All javelins may be spears, but not all spears are javelins. The Short Spear is basically the Javelin, exemplified by the Principate Romans as the Pilum and the Migration Period Germanic tribes as the Angon. The Spear is basically the Hasta of the Late Roman Legions, which gave rise to the later Spear of the Freeman and so on and so forth.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 07, 2008 - 9:48AM
#23
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Perhaps a constructive piece would be in order then... Instead of demanding that the spear be "fixed", show us what a "fixed" spear would look like in the PHB.
In 3.x you have the shortspear and longspear:
[b]Shortspear 1 gp 1d4 1d6
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5 years ago ::
Mar 07, 2008 - 11:11AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2003
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In 3.x you have the shortspear and longspear
Did you even buy the D&D 3.5 PHB, cause it seems you forgot the Spear (Short Spear, Spear and Longspear).
I think the shortspear works pretty well for your spear/shield fighting character...
Except its a casting/thrown weapon, which the common spear (Late Roman Hasta and subsequent Spears used by damn near everyone in Europe) was not. And that weapon was used in conjunction with the shield. We have pictoral, written as well as modern evidence to show that this was done.
If not, please show us what you have in mind to "fix" the spear.
Simple, remove the Range Increment and the Reach Ability from the Spear. Its 'balanced' vs the Short Spear and the Longspear.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 07, 2008 - 11:29AM
#25
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So...
[b]Spear 2 gp 1d6 1d8
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5 years ago ::
Mar 07, 2008 - 12:19PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2008
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Is it just me or is this entire thread WAAAAAY after the fact???!!!
Even if we didn't already know what spears were going to be like in 4e, this thread is a bit on the late side, seeing as the book is already going to print.
But as it is, Wizards has already *clearly* revealed that there will be a 1-handed spear that's better than the crappy little shortspear.
Kobold Skirmisher; Level 1 Skirmisher
Small natural humanoid; XP 100
Initiative: +5; Senses: Perception +0; darkvision
HP 27; Bloodied 13
AC 15; Fortitude 11, Reflex 14, Will 13; see also trap sense
Speed 6
Spear (standard; at will) • Weapon
+6 vs. AC; 1d8 damage; see also mob attack
Combat Advantage
The kobold skirmisher deals an extra 1d6 damage on melee and ranged attacks against any target it has combat advantage against.
Mob Attack
The kobold skirmisher gains a +1 bonus to attack rolls per kobold ally adjacent to the target.
Shifty (minor; at will)
The kobold shifts 1 square as a minor action.
Trap Sense
The kobold gains a +2 bonus to all defenses against traps.
Alignment: Evil; Languages: Draconic
Skills: Acrobatics +8, Stealth +10, Thievery +10
Str 8 (-1) Dex 16 (+3) Wis 10 (+0)
Con 11 (+0) Int 6 (-2) Cha 15 (+2)
Equipment: Hide armor, light shield, spear
As you can see from this stat block, the kobold is using a spear and a light shield at the same time. And the spear he's using does 1d8, not 1d6. From what I can tell, being Small doesn't affect the damage your weapon deals (see: Halfling Paladin) so we can reasonably assume that the standard 4e spear will be a 1d8 damage, one-handed weapon, which is exactly what the OP was lobbying for. I for one am happy at the change, because for being such a mainstay weapon the spear has always sucked.
If anyone needs further proof, I have a few more kobold stat blocks, but this one was copied directly from an image of the actual MM stat block (no chance of error).
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