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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 6:26PM
#41
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Date Joined:
May 17, 2003
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6 + Bonuses + 1d6 (High Crit) + 1d6 (Fire) + 3d6 (Sneak Attack)
How's the reducing the amount of die rolls effectively?
6 isn't being rolled. Bonuses aren't being rolled. High crit is replacing multiple dice from multiplication.
It's 2 less dice for x2, 3 less dice for x3, 4 less dice for x4, and 4 less dice for greatswords (or any weapon mirroring their 3e damage in 4e)
Or a spell crit of 5d6, you're cutting out 5 extra dice (if there were to be spells in 4e where you do xdy damage.) (Of course, if those are gone, it's also possible that Sneak attack is also changing from extra dice to a bonus. We don't know yet)
How is 2 or more less dice, not reducing the amount of die rolls? Add high crit and you're still rolling one less die.
Dumbed down rules would have been simply 2x damage because that's what it's always been, with said multiple rolls. It's obvious that they are trying to go for a different approach to get a certain effect. Just because it's easy to remember doesn't mean it's dumbed down. They've explained that too much randomness on certain crits creates problems, and that's why they went with it. Perhaps you should go read some dev blogs and see what their goals for 4e were.
So please point me to any infants, pet rocks, and housecats that will be able to play 4e due to it's "dumbed down rules."
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 7:04PM
#42
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EDIT
Removing multipliers from crits is dumbing them down. That's a fact. They're removing multipliers because of EDIT that couldn't understand how multipliers worked.
No, they didn't. They removed multipliers becuase nearly everyone they asked about critical multipliers said they didn't like them. I was flat out asked by a WotC person at a con 2 years ago.
We were chatting at a booth, he asked me what I thought about they way crits works. I said the mechanic was fine, but finicky. Sometimes a crit means nothing, sometimes it means everything.
I then explained that I felt that crits should always do a lot of damage, not just a chance to do a lot of damage. It seems I was not the only person in the world to feel that way.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 8:12PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2008
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I disagree. The unpredictability of crits are what make them enjoyable imo. It's always a really nice bonus when you manage to roll real high and take down that foe that's been harassing you for several rounds. Less interesting crits more often just removes some of that fun.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 8:24PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2006
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It's all fun and games until that "interesting crit" is dropping a PC without the player having a chance to do a thing about it...
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 8:32PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2007
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Am I alone in this? I cant believe they thought this was a cool idea. It's a needless Dumbing-Down change. .
Simply not liking a change doesn't make it dumbed-down.
[/ ]
I think by "Dumbing-down" he was referring to the simplification of the crit rules. They went from a math problem to a flat value so in that respect they were in fact "dumbed down". However since 4E is going to a more streamlined approach to game play I would disagree with the change being needless.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 8:39PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2008
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It's all fun and games until that "interesting crit" is dropping a PC without the player having a chance to do a thing about it...
Oh noes! How dare a PC ever be subject to actual DANGER! We can't have that... someone might have their feelings hurt because their poor widdle powergamed character died.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 8:44PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2006
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Insulting much, Aria?
At any rate, an optimized character is a lot less likely to fall to a critical hit in 3.5 than one who isn't. So people who don't optimize should be more worried about the issue than those who do.
I lose a character to a crit, I'm not upset about the mathematical work I did being gone - I'm upset about the imaginary person I made being gone.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 9:01PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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People really need to stop slinging around "dumbed down" without knowing what it means. "Simplification", even extreme simplification, is not "dumbed down". "Dumbing down" has nothing to do with the removal of complexity or mathmatics, but the removal of meaningful gameplay (tactical and strategic) choice. THAC0 isn't a gameplay choice. Multiplying crits isn't a gameplay choice. Those are simply systems for handling attack rolls and critical hits, not choices. To suggest that BAB or max-damage crits are "dumbing down" the game is to say that D&D would be vastly improved by requiring advanced trig functions to determine an attack's success, or that crits should require a scientific calculator to process. That's ridiculous.
Now, you might say that the new Pit Fiend is "dumbed down". It's pejorative and doesn't take into account the new overall encounter design system, but at least it might be true, because we cannot help but agree that there is less "stuff" on the new pit fiend's sheet (regardless of how meaningful it may or may not have been).
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 9:04PM
#49
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2007
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I like the new Critical Mechanics because I view it like this. When someone rolls a 20 that means he is striking the target with the upmost level of expertize, luck and skill. So as such he should get the maximum damage he could potentially deal with his weapon, which would be max damage.
Now if we had the double damage that would mean something fundamentally altered about the weapon itself to do damage beyond its means.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 9:06PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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Insulting much, Aria?
At any rate, an optimized character is a lot less likely to fall to a critical hit in 3.5 than one who isn't. So people who don't optimize should be more worried about the issue than those who do.
I lose a character to a crit, I'm not upset about the mathematical work I did being gone - I'm upset about the imaginary person I made being gone.
Yeah, what the heck? Aria's argument didn't even make sense. There's nothing wrong with a character getting killed in a properly balanced encounter. It happens. But getting gacked unexpectedly and suddenly isn't fun for anybody, DM included.
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