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5 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2008 - 11:02AM
#161
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2006
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Well we already know that's not how poison works. Poison does hit point damage, and I really suspect that petrification will as well. Hit points are too important an aspect of the game to just bypass like that. Plus it totally screws with the balance. Using the "three strike" method means that you could petrify a pit fiend, and if he gets a couple of bad rolls afterward (he only gets a +2) then he's just dead. That's only marginally better than a save-or-die. It's, as I've said before, "save-or-save-or-save or die".
Really? I hadn't seen the conclusion on poison. Link?
In that case, ignore the 3 strikes part. However, I doubt that a 20 will remove all effects. That would make it too easy to shake things off and thus make effects worth less than pure HP damage.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2008 - 1:52PM
#162
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2007
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I expect poisons to be divided into two parts.
The first part will be a direct damage per round. Poison 5 does 5 hit points of damage per round.
The second part will sometimes be present and will be a 'rider' or an extra effect like Weakness, Slowed, or other.
I do though think the three strike rule will still apply to other things like poison and petrification.
It seems that the three strike rule will be the DnD equivelent of the SWSaga Condition monitor. The advantage is that the three strike rule once explained is quick and easy to keep track of with a character.
Rules like that, once built, tend to be applied to a variety of other things.
It is also nice in that it gives enough time for someone to do something to help a person if they choose but still immediate enough to keep a character watching the rounds and praying that this d20 roll will not be their last for the combat.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2008 - 1:53PM
#163
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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Really? I hadn't seen the conclusion on poison. Link?
In that case, ignore the 3 strikes part. However, I doubt that a 20 will remove all effects. That would make it too easy to shake things off and thus make effects worth less than pure HP damage.
Hmm... Haven't got a proper link, but there's the bit on the tail-sting from the pit fiend entry:
"+29 vs. Fortitude; ongoing 15 poison damage, and the target is weakened (save ends both effects). "
Also, from W&M, p.30: "...poison is a damage type in 4th Edition, so the green dragon has a breath weapon of poison gas again, and it deals poison damage. So does its bite, for that matter."
As for removing all conditions on a 20, I don't really know. That's how it is in DDM. And it's not all that easy. You've only got a 1 in 20 chance, and if you've got several effects eating away at you at once, you've got enough problems that catching a break once in a while isn't going to ruin things, I think.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2008 - 6:49PM
#164
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2006
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Hmm... Haven't got a proper link, but there's the bit on the tail-sting from the pit fiend entry:
"+29 vs. Fortitude; ongoing 15 poison damage, and the target is weakened (save ends both effects). "
Also, from W&M, p.30: "...poison is a damage type in 4th Edition, so the green dragon has a breath weapon of poison gas again, and it deals poison damage. So does its bite, for that matter."
Thanks.
As for removing all conditions on a 20, I don't really know. That's how it is in DDM. And it's not all that easy. You've only got a 1 in 20 chance, and if you've got several effects eating away at you at once, you've got enough problems that catching a break once in a while isn't going to ruin things, I think.
1) DDM doesn't necessarily mean 4e.
2) That's true, but I've known several players to have a lucky 20 streak; if it's possibly to remove a bunch of effects at once, I can see combats where it's impossible to affect someone with non-HP effects because they shake them all off with a series of lucky rolls. I don't know if that's quite fair, but YMMV.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2008 - 6:58PM
#165
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>Snip<
Sorry, but that analogy fails. The new system was designed to work with the new crit system, which does not double damage. It is maximum damage.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 16, 2008 - 10:34PM
#166
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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1) DDM doesn't necessarily mean 4e.
I know, but it's what we've got to go on.
2) That's true, but I've known several players to have a lucky 20 streak; if it's possibly to remove a bunch of effects at once, I can see combats where it's impossible to affect someone with non-HP effects because they shake them all off with a series of lucky rolls. I don't know if that's quite fair, but YMMV.
Keep in mind that saves will likely be about a 50/50 chance of recovery for each effect each round. They aren't meant to last all that long. It's quite possible to recover from three or four effects at once WITHOUT rolling a 20. So rolling a 20 is only a minor benefit, really, unless you've got a LOT (like 10 or 12) of effects on you at once.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 17, 2008 - 7:52AM
#167
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2006
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Keep in mind that saves will likely be about a 50/50 chance of recovery for each effect each round. They aren't meant to last all that long. It's quite possible to recover from three or four effects at once WITHOUT rolling a 20. So rolling a 20 is only a minor benefit, really, unless you've got a LOT (like 10 or 12) of effects on you at once.[/quote]
Point. If the saves are standing in for a duration I suppose it's not all that bad.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 7:31AM
#168
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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Sorry, but that analogy fails. The new system was designed to work with the new crit system, which does not double damage. It is maximum damage.
Interesting. The article mentions that on one of his best hits, the brute will do 25-30 points, but on a CRITICAL hit, he will do nearly double that....
If that is the case, then it would seem that a critacal hit is more than just maximum damage.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 7:38AM
#169
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Date Joined:
Jul 26, 2003
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But we already know that some weapons, and probably soem other attacks will do max dmg plus another die or 2 which in some cases can end up being more than double normal.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2008 - 3:25PM
#170
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2006
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Interesting. The article mentions that on one of his best hits, the brute will do 25-30 points, but on a CRITICAL hit, he will do nearly double that....
If that is the case, then it would seem that a critacal hit is more than just maximum damage.
There are special abilities that activate on crits, so there could be bonus damage or some such, but the base damage is only maximized, not doubled.
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