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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 7:23AM
#131
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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Anything outside of the %90 (like being in a vat of acid as well...) should be determined by the DM.... I mean, we still want to keep them around and give them some "power"... right... Riiiight??? (I hope so  )
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 11:36AM
#132
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you are assuming every monster in the book won't have half a chance at one-shotting a player character... because of some vague stats in this article. Good luck on keeping your house of cards standing.
why bother keeping track? well, you are making an argument here that goes something like this :"since its very hard for a monster to one-off a PC with a single attack, we might as well make it almost impossible for them to kill them"... i can't agree with the logic at all.
If an ork stabbed some dying captain in the chest with a spear, i expect him to die. i don't expect the captain to tell the ork "you better stab harder, because toothpick ain't doing nothing to me". and then we get two minutes of every ork nearby trying to stab the captain to death...? its completely insane.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 11:46AM
#133
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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The biggest reason to keep track of negitve hp is what happends if you find your character in an AOE spell (fireball). If your at -30 out of -60 and get hit for a fire ball for 35 points of damage your character is dead. Or if the big dumb monster is hungry and just wants to eat the closest none moving target that can do 20-40 damage in one hit. You just lost your character.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 11:51AM
#134
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2004
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In regard to whether 1/2 HP is too much of a buffer, I'd note that we're seeing a fairly large number of effects that can continue to deal damage after the initial hit in 4th edition. Perhaps even more importantly, we're seeing a large number of monsters that deal aura damage, like the Pit Fiend. A PC that's already in negative HP doesn't stop taking damage just because they're down.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 11:58AM
#135
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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If an ork stabbed some dying captain in the chest with a spear, i expect him to die. i don't expect the captain to tell the ork "you better stab harder, because toothpick ain't doing nothing to me". and then we get two minutes of every ork nearby trying to stab the captain to death...? its completely insane.
I agree with this part %100...
If the orc attacks a downed character, then it is a coup de grace.
No reason to track negative hit points.... Spend the extra time drawing up a new character!!!
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 12:06PM
#136
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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The biggest reason to keep track of negitve hp is what happends if you find your character in an AOE spell (fireball). If your at -30 out of -60 and get hit for a fire ball for 35 points of damage your character is dead.
I would argue that this would be pretty rare (don't know yet...), but if that is the case, then we could:
1. Count that as 1 automatic failure...
2. Let the DM decide what to do...
Or if the big dumb monster is hungry and just wants to eat the closest none moving target that can do 20-40 damage in one hit. You just lost your character.
I would just call that a coup de grace... Especially considering (as the rule in the article suggested), that monster would auto crit the PC anyway...
A coup de grace in that instance would A. Make sense and B. eliminate the need to track negative hit points.
P.S. What is the damage of a industrial french fryer.... Come on, the DM should have some descetion as to the result... The rules should just cover what happens %90 of the time....
And yes, in one of my games (white wolf) the character dunked the bad guys head into the industrial french frier....
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 12:09PM
#137
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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In regard to whether 1/2 HP is too much of a buffer, I'd note that we're seeing a fairly large number of effects that can continue to deal damage after the initial hit in 4th edition. Perhaps even more importantly, we're seeing a large number of monsters that deal aura damage, like the Pit Fiend. A PC that's already in negative HP doesn't stop taking damage just because they're down.
As for Aura's... well, I doubt that an Aura would not do 1/2 your damage (current negative HP threshold) in less than three turns anyway... Or acid, or most AoE spells...
And we could always count the AoE spell as a "failure" roll...
Keep in mind that the rolls REPRESENT you character bleeding out and such as well.... But bleeding out does not "damage" the character..[/b]
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 12:21PM
#138
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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I would argue that this would be pretty rare (don't know yet...), but if that is the case, then we could:
1. Count that as 1 automatic failure...
2. Let the DM decide what to do...
Those sound like perfectly reasonable house rules.
But I think it's just as reasonable to keep negative hp for the limited purposes for which it might be used.
[list=1]
Tracking continuing damage after unconsciousness
Tracking area of effect damage after unconsciousness
Tracking incidental damage (as with a missed thrown weapon in 3.5), or when a heavy object falls into an unconscious person's square.
Tracking damage inflicted by creatures lacking the intent to CdG.[sup]1[/sup]
[sup]1[/sup] For example, the creature in the example gnawing on an unconscious person is not trying to kill him and has just as much likelihood of gnawing on a non-vital as a vital area. I don't think this should be counted as a CdG. It should just be additional damage.
What is the damage of a industrial french fryer....
In 3.5? A medium-sized vial of burning oil is treated as alchemist's fire (d6/round continuous damage for two rounds). If it is a significant amount of oil, you may want to treat it as a large (d8), huge (2d6) gargantuan (3d6) or colossal (4d6) amount of burning oil, based on the weapon size charts. A commercial deep fryer holds 40 lbs. of oil. Volume-wise, I think that's a gargantuan amount of oil. (3d6 continuous fire damage/round for 2 rounds)
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 12:27PM
#139
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so why bother ignoring negative hp if it only gets ignored in hopeless situations? negative HP is around for balance, its there to make sure that the DM isnt forced to handwave someone's death. I don't know how angry i would be if the DM in some half-survivable situation tells me " no, i personally think your character is dead, make a new one". the rules are there for those on-the-edge situations where you need to have a objective system to rule who lives and who dies. If you want to ignore the death rules in situations as the acid tank and falling into the volcano, be my guest. I would probably do so as well because its very unlikely that you will live to tell the tale. but to ignore them in less certain situations is not right.
In regard to whether 1/2 HP is too much of a buffer, I'd note that we're seeing a fairly large number of effects that can continue to deal damage after the initial hit in 4th edition. Perhaps even more importantly, we're seeing a large number of monsters that deal aura damage, like the Pit Fiend. A PC that's already in negative HP doesn't stop taking damage just because they're down.[/quote]
indeed. the pit fiend has poison 15 and fire-aura 15 that easily will cause a dying character to rapidly wither away. i can imagine the pit-fiend who picks up a unconscious character, teleports a bit away, and just stabs him full of poison and roasting him with his fire aura(whispering threats and curses into his ear as he comes closer and closer to death.). His servants keeps the rest of the party occupied.
doing 30 damage in lingering effects plus extra attacks would in my ears kill of alot of characters quite quickly. but most likely not quick enough that you won't have to count the negative HP.
basically, wrecan has put the finger on it. you might house-rule as you like, but its just as reasonable to keep control of negative hit points for the situations where the little things matter.
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5 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2008 - 1:40PM
#140
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2007
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If you want to ignore the death rules in situations as the acid tank and falling into the volcano, be my guest. I would probably do so as well because its very unlikely that you will live to tell the tale. but to ignore them in less certain situations is not right.
You make a point here... but... In the same post you ALSO say:
I don't know how angry i would be if the DM in some half-survivable situation tells me "no, i personally think your character is dead, make a new one". the rules are there for those on-the-edge situations where you need to have a objective system to rule who lives and who dies.
You do realize that you just contridicted yourself right???
Keeping track of negative hit points can ONLY BE USED TO NEGATE your chance to recover...
In essense, it would be used by the DM to basically say: no, i personally think your character is dead (due to the imp fiend aura, volcano, vat of acid), make a new one
Perhaps you could state how keeping the negative HP around helps your character survive better than my rule???
Just thought you might want to rethink your claims...
P.S. Also, how is my system NOT objective??? The rules seem pretty consistant to me....[/b]
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