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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:13PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2006
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I would like to know if I will be able to use any (That is any part of them) of the 3.5 books that I spent so much money on. . This is all I care to know. I am OK with buying new core books. I am ok with buying a setting book again. I am not OK with my new Drow of the Underdark being useless. I am not OK with my recently purchased MMs being useless. I am not ok with the Completes or the PHBII being useless. I need to know if I will be able to convert them. I don't mean like I can convert 2e to 3.5e either. I mean convert like the MMII converts to 3.5. If I can't do that, then I'll play with what I have.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:14PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2006
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No "Dead Levels". This means that characters have something to look forward to at every level. Confirmed by development team.
Instead of hardwired class features, utilize the amazing talent tree system from Modern and Saga. This allows immense customization as well as makes it easier to add features or tweak classes with new abilities in future books. Confirmed by development team.
Give classes a defense bonus. Whether you go the route of Saga, which gets rid of saves and you have 3 defenses, or go with the system of a different d20 system (Modern, Wheel of Time, older Star Wars d20 RPG's) with a Defense score (AC). I hate relying almost solely on armor, and the only real way of boosting that AC is through magic. If I have a rogue who has an aversion to magic, my AC should not have a capped max of 16 with an 18 Dex and light armor. What if I don't want to wear armor? This needs to change. I've heard nothing on this so far, but I disagree that this needs to change. If you don't want to wear armor, you're going to be more vulnerable than someone who decides "Hey, wearing some kind of armor would be smart!"
The magic system needs to be redesigned. There are a variety of fantastic stories to draw on from for inspiration. The Vancian system needs to be thrown out. It sounds like the magic system is either getting an overhaul or a significant extension in the form of non-daily resources.
Add the condition track from SWSE. This will open many avenues for gameplay options. Using magic wear you out? Move down the condition track! I'd be surprised if they put this in.
Tales from the Rusty Dragon (http://rustydragon.blogspot.com) - A 4th Edition Conversion Project Covering Paizo's Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:16PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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4th Edition Design and Development,
I'm a long time player and DM, with experience of all editions of the game.
I'm especially impressed with the ideas presented in the Saga edition of the Star Wars roleplaying game, and I hope many of these ideas (elimination of skill ranks, Damage Threshold, condition tracking, talents, increased ability modifiers for example) will make their way into the game.
The two fundamental flaws of D&D are it's heavy emphasis on the "healer" character and the heavy weight of magic gadgets on the rules. Please look to games like Saga and Iron Heroes to give characters the ability to recover hp on their own (the Second Wind mechanic). Please reduce the power levels of magic items in the game, and weight them far less heavily. If a high level character loses all of their gear, should their power level drop by 35%-50%? What about something more reasonable like 10-20%?
Spells and powers are highly complex and take up so much page space because they are necessarily so explicit. By introducting a more modular, cellular system to spells and powers, you could not only increase the number of options for users, but decrease text load and unnecessary duplication. You already have descriptors and schools, just take it a step further and turn the system into one deriving from combinations of elements.
The original Dungeon Master's Guide listed it's inspirational sources. Please draw on these sources, and return the game to the realm of mythological epic. I would like to see the game present some rare easter eggs allowing for the meek to overcome the strong. The game is astounding in it's gameplay, but can that gameplay also capture well the spirit of storytelling?
Also, I hope that while giving each of the classes their own particular abilities you will ensure that they are indeed heavily balanced against one another. I'm not a proponent of the "do everything character" as many on this thread are, but one class should be able to defeat another of equal level 50% of the time.
I hope you will consider my input in these matters, as most of my colleagues concur with me on these subjects.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:16PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2006
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concerning the D&D insider: depending on how much you charge, and what content is offered, I may or may not subscribe. I really don't like subscriptions, so again my socks must be blown off. As for Dungeon and Dragon magzines, if I can't store it on my hard drive and use it without an internet connection, i'm out. $9.95 a month, and you get access to the Game Table app, the Character Creator, DM Toolbox, Dragon and Dungeon magazines and some other stuff.
Tales from the Rusty Dragon (http://rustydragon.blogspot.com) - A 4th Edition Conversion Project Covering Paizo's Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:20PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2003
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Dear Hasbro, Wizards of the Coast, the designers of 4th edition, Bill slavicsek, and Gamer_Zero:
I have been lurking on the wizards boards for FOUR YEARS and registered as a result of the 4th edition announcement. I've been playing D&D off and on since 1985 when I started with the 'red box' basic set. The game has, in my opinion been improved greatly since I started. I am NOT upset that my recent purchases of over $1200 in the last eight months may be invalidated, BUT 4th edition is going to have to blow my socks off in a way i've never had them blown off before if you want me to buy in at release. I'm actually optimistic about this so i'll give 4th the benefit of the doubt until I see it. If 4th edition is going to be something like d20 modern [generic classes, feats, talents, lots of options] and True20 [fast and easy,], you guys will have me at release, no ifs, ands, or buts. I sympathize with other players of the hobby concerning losing playability of previous books. However, I do believe the older material can be adapted to the current ruleset, and that holds true from converting 'basic D&D' modules/supplements to AD&D 1e all the way to converting 3.5 to 4th. Is this a money making ploy? Depends how you look at it. It seems wizards of the coast thinks they can make more money selling a new edition of D&D instead of making supplements for the current version. Either wizards is horribly mistaken, or 4th is going to be a sock-blowing-off product, and they know it. Again, i'm optimistic. concerning the D&D insider: depending on how much you charge, and what content is offered, I may or may not subscribe. I really don't like subscriptions, so again my socks must be blown off. As for Dungeon and Dragon magzines, if I can't store it on my hard drive and use it without an internet connection, i'm out. Since a new edition is coming out, the older edition books will sell for less. this means I can finally pick up a few sourcebooks I wanted, but not at full cover price. So far, things look good. There's a bunch of good points there.
People feel like every new release is some nefarious scam by Wizards wherein they print and market the either the worst material they can come up with or the most blatantly derivative material they can shave from previous releases and trick you into buying it for MONEY.
The fact is, if the book is bad, it won't sell. I don't know of any hobby shop that doesn't let customers browse the books before purchasing so if a book isn't a good release and worth buying, you don't have to spend the money and wizards doesn't FURTHER ITS DARK PLANS.
If anything, Wizards has made it easier for those with no intention of playing 4th Edition to persue their 3rd edition collections. Out of print books very often see reductions in price (a phenomenon that never ceases to confuse me) especially when new editions are released.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:26PM
#56
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To a certain extent, that's true. Encounters are (read: should be) designed assuming that each character will make appropriate use of his or her abilites. For most non-spellcasters, this means using every trick at their disposal. For spell casters, this isn't the case. It's not that hard for a caster to over-commit to a fight, making the encounter trivial, but expending too many spells which could result in a very difficult or un-beatable encounter later on when your principal damage dealer is essentially a bystander.
This holds up in non-combat situations as well. An overeager caster could expend a divination for something a rogue could've found out with some careful searching or a warrior could've gotten through interrogation leaving the party empty handed when that divination really would have been the only answer in a later situation. One of the balancing factors for the entire DnD Vancian system has always been that casters have to use their spells with great forethought. I hope that a 'per encounter" system becomes more like the reserve feats in CM and leaves the Vancian-feel. Without the Vancian system it really won't be like DnD anymore, which might be preferable to many, but would leave grognards like me behind.
I am wary of the ToB feel combat and fighters in particular appear to be headed, but am encouraged by the design article discussing how to make weapon choice matter. An elegant system that allows for most weapons to have their historical niche (without going into sci-fi) has always been a dream of mine.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:32PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2001
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Hallelujah! One of the possibilities I've considered as a "fighter fix" would be a focus on a weapon type. I'm glad to see it here. Not only that, but it looks like each weapon type results in several resource management options, and only this fighter class has access to even cooler maneuver-ish abilities with said weapon types. A great idea.
Also: Weapon usage depends on different Abilities. Number of Attacks depends on weapon choice. "Speed" is a factor for weapons. And not only is AC going to remain, but more choices/abilities are included to bypass/deal with it. Fascinating. Hear hear. This is one of those things that I hadn't thought about but I really like it on reflection. I mean, honestly, when was the last time you heard of a fighter who specialized in trident or pick?
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:32PM
#58
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I am wary of the ToB feel combat and fighters in particular appear to be headed, but am encouraged by the design article discussing how to make weapon choice matter. An elegant system that allows for most weapons to have their historical niche (without going into sci-fi) has always been a dream of mine. Actually, I'm very excited about the way they seem to be taking fighters. I didn't like ToB in 3.5, but that was because it was too darned different. It took the idea of "I have sword, I slash monster" and threw it out the window...it became difficult to decide what a ToB character could be compared against classwise, since there was almost no precedent for them (I say that because someone would not doubt tell me "nuh-uh, there was this thing!").
If ToB-style becomes the norm for melee characters, then hopefully they won't be useless for the most part compared to casters after level 10 or so. :D
To edit your signature, click the red "Preferences" link in the top-right corner of the white space for the forums. It is directly to the left of the search bar and directly above the location bar.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:32PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2003
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I am wary of the ToB feel combat and fighters in particular appear to be headed... Don't be afraid of Tome of Battle - embrace it! It gives Fighters things to do other than "I full attack."
...but am encouraged by the design article discussing how to make weapon choice matter. An elegant system that allows for most weapons to have their historical niche (without going into sci-fi) has always been a dream of mine. As long as we're not going back to "Chainmail has an AC penaly vs piercing weapons", that it should be good.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 17, 2007 - 1:32PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2006
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The two fundamental flaws of D&D are it's heavy emphasis on the "healer" character and the heavy weight of magic gadgets on the rules. I don't think that either of these could be considered fundamental flaws. On what evidence do you base this?
Spells and powers are highly complex and take up so much page space because they are necessarily so explicit. By introducting a more modular, cellular system to spells and powers, you could not only increase the number of options for users, but decrease text load and unnecessary duplication. You already have descriptors and schools, just take it a step further and turn the system into one deriving from combinations of elements. Won't happen, for the same reason that we won't see a class-less leveling system.
Also, I hope that while giving each of the classes their own particular abilities you will ensure that they are indeed heavily balanced against one another. I'm not a proponent of the "do everything character" as many on this thread are, but one class should be able to defeat another of equal level 50% of the time. Totally pointless. D&D isn't about dueling characters. It's a team game, centered around a party mechanic.
Tales from the Rusty Dragon (http://rustydragon.blogspot.com) - A 4th Edition Conversion Project Covering Paizo's Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path
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