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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 11:13AM
#2251
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2004
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Uh, a healing potion is a magical item, at least according to the rules.  I'd hate to see every character class having outright mystical or "proto-magical" class features just because "it fits the genre" or "it is COOL and makes the game more FUN". 
As far as second-wind goes, though, it's a staple of the adventure genre (not just comic books, either), nor requiring magic.
Likewise I can see several things that are currently at the end of long feat chains moved to talent trees and made per-encounter at lower levels. (Whirlwind attack, say). I've already touched on rage as another possible non-magical per-encounter ability.
My point is, there's plenty of non-magical abilities that are out there. I might suspect the fighter of mugging the monk and rummaging the monk's pockets before he wakes up for Extraordinary abilities.
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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 11:26AM
#2252
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Does this mean that every bar thug has maneuvers or that every town watchman is a weapon master in training? For me being a hero is rp not stats, not abilities, not cool powers. How will my play style function under the new rules set?
Bar thugs and town watchmans arent fighters. They are warriors (or whatever the NPC is going to be called). They have fewer hp, and no access to mastery.
Just like not every preacher of a religion is a Cleric that can turn undead. Most of them are Experts that know about religion and have diplomacy. The hero ones are the ones that cast spells.
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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 11:38AM
#2253
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2004
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How wonderfully open minded of you.
Anywho. How are we supposed to, in lieu of what has been hinted at, play average joe who grows into a hero under the new rules? Does this mean that every bar thug has maneuvers or that every town watchman is a weapon master in training? For me being a hero is rp not stats, not abilities, not cool powers. How will my play style function under the new rules set?
This is a serious question: Is that play style the basic rules should cater to?
Seriously, should the core D&D rules cater to a low-power, gritty, play style. Or should characters be hero material from the start?
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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 1:42PM
#2254
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2006
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This is a serious question: Is that play style the basic rules should cater to?
Seriously, should the core D&D rules cater to a low-power, gritty, play style. Or should characters be hero material from the start?
I think it should cater to no particular play style but be capable of encompasing most. I don't think my playstyle is so "out there" that it can't be realised in a ruleset that can also handle characters that trot around the FR.
The horrible truth - "Their new marketing strategy (Evergreen Essentials) pretty much requires that anything new that sees print refer back almost exclusively to Essentials." Tony Vargas
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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 1:44PM
#2255
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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This is a serious question: Is that play style the basic rules should cater to?
Seriously, should the core D&D rules cater to a low-power, gritty, play style. Or should characters be hero material from the start?
I personally think that heroes are *made* -- you're not born as one. However, I suspect that the 4E designers strongly disagree with me. :P
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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 1:49PM
#2256
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I personally think that heroes are *made* -- you're not born as one. However, I suspect that the 4E designers strongly disagree with me. :P
In real life, maybe. In fantasy settings, often not. Several characters are born in a "miracle day", or with "fate mark". Rand Al'thor, Conan, Aragorn, Raistlin, Belgarion... Even ancient myths such as Achiles or Cu Chulain had a Fate to be hero since the very first breath they took.
Sure that others (the hobbits in LotR for example) do not. You can repressent those by making the players to start with a lvl in a non-PC class, like expert, then multiclass to rogue.
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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 3:31PM
#2257
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
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In real life, maybe. In fantasy settings, often not. Several characters are born in a "miracle day", or with "fate mark". Rand Al'thor, Conan, Aragorn, Raistlin, Belgarion... Even ancient myths such as Achiles or Cu Chulain had a Fate to be hero since the very first breath they took.
Sure that others (the hobbits in LotR for example) do not. You can repressent those by making the players to start with a lvl in a non-PC class, like expert, then multiclass to rogue.
Those characters are still 'made'. They're not normal, they have courage, faith, and emotional strength far beyond that of a normal Hobbit.
In fact, the entire family of Took was obviously a family of 'heroic' Hobbits
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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 3:33PM
#2258
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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In real life, maybe. In fantasy settings, often not. Several characters are born in a "miracle day", or with "fate mark". Rand Al'thor, Conan, Aragorn, Raistlin, Belgarion... Even ancient myths such as Achiles or Cu Chulain had a Fate to be hero since the very first breath they took.
Sure that others (the hobbits in LotR for example) do not. You can repressent those by making the players to start with a lvl in a non-PC class, like expert, then multiclass to rogue.
You're right -- but then again, those are all examples of fantasy fiction characters. Their "unique" or "remarkable fate" has to be explained and "justified" to the reader, so that he understands why the character survives against impossible odds in the book. In RPGs we always have that "metalevel knowledge" ever since the character creation process -- in time he *will* become a hero because he is a PC, a protagonist, and his "spotlight" in the campaign is already justified in our minds.
Note that being a 1st level character might make you only *mechanically* less heroic than a 10th level character -- thematically you can be as heroic as he is, regardless of your level and class. Thus, I don't think you should see some classes as being "more powerful" than others, because they don't matter "storywise" (there are also a great number of RW stories, tales and legends of "heroic commoners").
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6 years ago ::
Oct 03, 2007 - 6:37PM
#2259
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How wonderfully open minded of you.
Anywho. How are we supposed to, in lieu of what has been hinted at, play average joe who grows into a hero under the new rules? Does this mean that every bar thug has maneuvers or that every town watchman is a weapon master in training? For me being a hero is rp not stats, not abilities, not cool powers. How will my play style function under the new rules set?
Different people play differently, but I'm an average joe in my real life, I don't want to play one in my games. If all you want to do is roleplay some joe schmoe you can do that without any game system at all, but some of us want to have cool abilities and powers.
As for thugs and watchmen, they are not the focus of the story so they don't follow the rules for heroes. The don't even exist beyond their interaction with the central characters.
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5 years ago ::
Dec 21, 2007 - 8:48PM
#2260
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Date Joined:
Aug 16, 2007
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Alas, levels 1-10 are the "heroic" tier, not the "average joe" tier. If you really need to play an "non-hero" for a couple of levels, just don't write down your feats or save bonuses until you're ready. I may be wrong, but I imagine you'll tire of "joe" pretty quickly.
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