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6 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2007 - 11:04AM
#361
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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-- Ranger9 Thank you for that, it explains a lot. I hope that "lesser effects" are in as you describe them rather than the "fizzle" effect. I understand that the spells that are "do or not" type will still be negated and wouldn't change that.
What spells would go against AC? there are no spells that do that now, why change this?
So what is being used to roll with? BaB? Slaved skill? Caster Attack Bonus? BaB with a Spell to hit addition?
Doing it with a skill might work with this set up, but is a lazy way to import the mechanic.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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6 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2007 - 11:20AM
#362
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2007
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Certain spells don't target AC but should -- like Magic Missile. Any spell that's essentially a physical attack (including an energy physical attack) and targets a single figure should be made as an attempt against AC. A shield should block a Magic Missile, and sometimes it should bounce off of armor or be partially deflected by it. One can imagine a spell like True Strike being changed so that it no longer gives a bonus to a normal BAB-based attack role, but rather permits the spell caster to use his (higher) spell caster bonus (plus a bonus on top of that) against a target's AC to resolve an attack.
Making Magic Missile target AC would have the useful side-effect of somewhat reducing it in power so it's no longer a second level spell masquerading as a first-level spell.
Whether they'll do it that way I don't know, but it seems likely. Just as current spells are divided up among the current three saves, the new ones will be divided up among the new four defenses.
>>>So what is being used to roll with? BaB? Slaved skill? Caster Attack Bonus? BaB with a Spell to hit addition?
Usually caster bonus I'd think except for the few spells that currently use BAB to achieve their effect (like True Strike-- yes, I know the spell is cast and then the attack is made, but you know what I mean). One could imagine numerous paladin, ranger, and monk spells (or spell-like effects) being BAB-based.
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6 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2007 - 6:37PM
#363
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2001
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I suspect spells will still wholly fail on a (total, after modifiers) roll of less than 10. But that's a feature, not a bug, in my eyes and in any case should rarely matter to reasonably well-built PCs after 3rd level or so.
Lots of spells target AC now. Every ray and every touch spell does, albeit unarmoured AC, along with the orbs and a few others.
Jeff Heikkinen
DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
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6 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2007 - 6:41PM
#364
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I suspect spells will still wholly fail on a (total, after modifiers) roll of less than 10. But that's a feature, not a bug, in my eyes and in any case should rarely matter to reasonably well-built PCs after 3rd level or so.
Lots of spells target AC now. Every ray and every touch spell does, albeit unarmoured AC, along with the orbs and a few others.
That Touch AC you mention is now rolled into the Reflex Defense in 4E
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6 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2007 - 9:23PM
#365
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btw, you can't miss with a fireball inside of a cave. That is just bonkers. This isn't equipment being used by a jedi, it is spells.
you can miss it just as much as you can miss a grenade launcher.
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6 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2007 - 6:52AM
#366
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Could the Caster bonus in question end up being the character's Caster Level? As a pure caster, that would be equivalent to a Fighter's (3.5E) +1/Lvl single-class BAB, and it might accurately reflect in some manner how non-pure casters are less potent at certain types of magic (or could have other caveats -- I imagine a Ranger, if he still has magic, using his normal BAB on a ray casting in place of his lower Caster Level modifier -- as if it were any other of his many ranged attacks -- to typify his one-on-one striker capabilities.
In any case, as a fan of the SAGA defense scheme, but wary of how it treated armor, I'm glad to see the latest word on AC and defense scores in 4e.
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6 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2007 - 7:32AM
#367
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Could the Caster bonus in question end up being the character's Caster Level?
For pure casters, sure. For demi-spellcaster (like a paladin is in 3.0) probably not, and multiclasses would probably not add the whole level as well
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6 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2007 - 9:37AM
#368
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Rolling dice was never that fun for me personally; in my opinion, anything that speeds up the resolution of actions in combat is a good thing. I suppose there might be some games where you say "The fireball races towards the three of you aaannnnd.... *everyone rolls* YOU ALL MADE IT!", but most of my games seem to go "The fireball races towards the three of you aaannnd.... *everyone rolls* ok, so... carry the one... and, then yeah, the plus from bless, and haste gives you a plus one as well i think, ok, and did everyone remember the minus one from the prayer? ok, and you've got cat's grace on as well... so..."
Good point. Static saves will be infinitely superior for anyone who:
(a) Can't be bothered to calculate their saving throw bonuses before play begins; and
(b) Can't handle simple arithmetic at anything approaching a reasonable speed.
Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net
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6 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2007 - 11:21AM
#369
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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you can miss it just as much as you can miss a grenade launcher.
But the granade still goes off, bearing that it doesn't have any defects of manufacture. Fireball should not go "fssst. poof." Just because it is summoned instead of bought.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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6 years ago ::
Oct 07, 2007 - 11:27AM
#370
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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Magic missile may ignore armor completely (go right through) and be one of the "do or don't" effects. Possibly using the Reflex Defense without dex mod if keeping to the potency that it had in 3.x.
The 10 DC thing I would guess would be a Jedi thing, it simply wouldn't work with spellcasting. I like the "lesser effect" explanation that Ranger9 stated above, and hope that is the way it goes instead.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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