|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 10:52AM
#21
|
Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2006
|
The difference likes in "responsibility". So you either curse your DM and his good luck or you curse yourself and your bad luck. That's the difference, hehe.
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 11:09AM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
|
Interesting note: The rules do not have to be the same for the different sides of the table.
If it's more fun for players to roll saving throws against an effect, they can do that.
If it's more fun for the DM to have the player roll a single attack against his army of mooks' magic defense, he can do that.
A split like this doesn't even need to be a houserule, it could be the way the basic game is written. Converting from a saving throw bonus to an attack DC is one of the easiest and least painless things I can think of to do, so it could easily go either way, or as above, both... depending on which turn out to be more fun.
We're still years advanced from rods/staves/wands... which is a very very good thing.
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 11:09AM
#23
|
|
|
Personally, I think I will probably try out what is written and a players make all the rolls, if only because them making the rolls is less work for me when running a game. :D
Will it suck that all of the skeletons will either save or die (or at least get hit for full) because they have the same defense, *shrug*, do we want much variance in terms of skeletons anyway?
However I do second the point having some spells (in 3.5) require the attacker to roll and most others require the defender to roll is confusing to new players.
The only reason I can see for non-static defense is to help eliminate those "everyone fails and goes unconscious because they have defenses in the same 2-4 point area" moments. But that is only because the odds of everyone failing (rolling low) is lower than a single attacker beating the highest defense (rolling high, or a natural 20).
That said, I do prefer how Saga calculates Defenses over how 3.X (and d20M and earlier SW d20 versions) calculates Saves. Especially the tying in of AC/Defense with Reflex.
Heroic Level + highest appropriate Class Defense is just really nice. And it prevents the problem of multi-classed characters having a few saves really stacked and another save be truly hosed.
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 11:53AM
#24
|
Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2003
|
Will it suck that all of the skeletons will either save or die (or at least get hit for full) because they have the same defense, *shrug*, do we want much variance in terms of skeletons anyway?
Well I would just have the PC roll for each Skeleton. Its really no difference than when the Fighter does a WW attack.
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 1:06PM
#25
|
|
|
Well I would just have the PC roll for each Skeleton. Its really no difference than when the Fighter does a WW attack.
You are looking at 3.5 still. In SW Saga, Whirlwind Attack says "you make one attack roll and apply the result to every target in range."
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 1:38PM
#26
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2004
|
Meaning at that point Saving Throws were still in the game. A good thing imho.
Not necessarily, that really could be a left over of old lingo as they haven't revealed what the combat format is. In the sense of streamlining, AC and saves are a poorer format than 3 defenses. In addition, that ability is very similar to the Nobles/Officers abilities...
I personally like the Static Defense if you have to have a static position, as the other form has quirky redundancies (I'm looking at you AC and Reflex). I also like that the caster has a more active role than being a fire and forget Rocket Launcher. Magic has always been soo boring in D&D that Psionics 3.0 was refreshing in that there power level was on a die roll. I want magic/psi to be interactive, not simple powers that go off automatically without a hitch.
The static defenses while not as fun in the defensive end, is more dramatic for the attackers end especially for the casters so nothing is lost and more is gained.
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 1:59PM
#27
|
|
|
Static defenses = every time you're going to stand and stare while the DM tells you if whatever hits you succeeds or not.
Sort of like physical attacks targeting your Static AC?
The DM rolls and either hits or misses and the player has no input.
One advantage is that you no longer have invincible targets because a "lucky" player (often helped by misreading the actual fall of the die) always "makes his save"
It also allows the DM to "fudge" dice rolls on "spell targeting" - something which sounds like it occurs regularly in certain campaigns.
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 4:14PM
#28
|
Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
|
sorry to burst your bubble, but I can't believe that the Saving throws would be reduced to being defenses like armor or the Saga over simplification. It may work in the setting of Star Wars, but it isn't a given to be in 4th ed just because it is in Saga.
Saga doesn't equal cannon for 4th ed. How many times must I repeat this?
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 4:26PM
#29
|
|
|
Using the UA variant "players roll all the dice" seems to me to be where this is going.
...
Before this gets off topic, I want to reiterate that I think that we're using the "players roll all the dice" idea, so that players WILL roll PC saving throws.
I hope so, for all the reasons you outlined and then some:
As DM it would mean that my attention would be more focussed on what the monsters are *doing* ("The bloodied orc screams a curdling cry and swings at you with his axe, roll for dodge!) rather than what they are rolling.
As a DM it means that every time a monster takes action against a player, that individual is involved. As it is now, I notice that some players sort of sit back and only really react if they actually take a hit. Sometimes their attention can wander so that they need to be notified of this circumstance. Now I have good players, but it is only natural when you only get to *do* something every few minutes in a complex combat.
As a DM it would mean that I could quickly describe many creature's actions and have multiple players resolving outcomes (I only play with folks I would trust with this anyway). This has the potential to massively speed up combat.
The only reason I haven't gone to the system now is that we play with some beginners who are in several campaigns and struggle with keeping track of the rules as is. Changing something this fundamental would be over the top in terms of explaining how today's D&D game is different from tomorrows for them, they want to just have fun once a week, not become a rules encyclopedia.
|
|
|
|
6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 10:51PM
#30
|
Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2004
|
Faster gameplay = More fun.
Old system "The wizard casts as spell at you give me a saveing throw. What type? A Will save. Is it mind affecting, cus I have a bonus against mind affecting? Ya it is. Ok so D20 plus my save bonus plus my racial bonus plus that spell bonus. Whats the DC? 15. O I made it. What did you roll? A 17. Hmm".
New system "The wizard casts a spell, you feel an affect in your mind but it fails to take holde. Next."
|
|
|
