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6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 12:21PM
#1811
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2003
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Indeed I do. I also know, or atleast think, that "Powerful" should mean something more than "Doesn't jump off cliffs".
So does "Powerful" mean sticking to a nonsensical analogy when someone correctly calls baloney on it?
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6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 2:49PM
#1812
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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wow, thread unravelled quicker than a ball of yarn in a kitty paws.
I know that technoligy is moving forward, but the online game of D&D is separate from the table top game. NWN2 has some good online "worlds" done by fans and such and might be a good start on how to make a truly changing and persistant world for a stand alone MMORPG, and the "officail" D&D online was a bust, for whatever reason, and isn't really up to par.
4th ed isn't going to be "D&D Tabletop Online" taking over the books and dice with a "game" played online. DDI are tools, stupidly slaved to an online sub service, with a table top interface for those that want to conference a game through the computer. The rules are still on paper, in the books. Nothing thus far is gonna change that, though the future may turn when DDI falls flat.
My wish is for some sort of OFFLINE character generator (creater, let's not get lost in semantics) that can have rules from the other books that is considered "Closed Content" available for it. I would also ask the same for DM tools, and a mapper tool (again OFFLINE) that can print parts of to scale "5'" box grid dungeons on regular 8 X 11 paper.
It won't happen as long as Wizards is holding it hostage inside DDI, overpriced and online, slaved to a web page.
I don't get it, why did Wizards think everyone would be excited about this?
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 3:00PM
#1813
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2007
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NWN2 has some good online "worlds" done by fans and such and might be a good start on how to make a truly changing and persistant world for a stand alone MMORPG, and the "officail" D&D online was a bust, for whatever reason, and isn't really up to par.
The reason that I never got it is because my friends who did told me about the low level cap and how their +5 sword broke and they were not able to repair it. Now, if they make a new DDO with the 4e ruleset, start with the level cap at 30, and take some notes from WoW on things like repairable items, then I might be interested in it. :D For now I have WoW, and I am very happy with it for my MMO needs.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 3:47PM
#1814
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2003
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It won't happen as long as Wizards is holding it hostage inside DDI, overpriced and online, slaved to a web page.
I don't get it, why did Wizards think everyone would be excited about this?
It is kind of a give away that nothing about the DDI is going to make you happy when you say it is overpriced. How you apply the word "overpriced" to a system that A) doesn't have a known price yet and B) doesn't have all of its features revealed?
I have to say though, it is pretty clear that you "don't get it".
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6 years ago ::
Sep 21, 2007 - 4:00PM
#1815
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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It is kind of a give away that nothing about the DDI is going to make you happy when you say it is overpriced. How you apply the word "overpriced" to a system that A) doesn't have a known price yet and B) doesn't have all of its features revealed?
I have to say though, it is pretty clear that you "don't get it".
If the tools I want to use is over 3 dollars a month and still can't be used offline, it is overpriced. The current price that is "unofficial" is 9.95 a month, and ala cart is still not being considered, or at least hasn't been announced as a possibility.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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6 years ago ::
Sep 25, 2007 - 2:26PM
#1816
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Date Joined:
Sep 16, 2007
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Why buy any book? Books are so last millennium.
[EDIT: Promoting illegal activities (downloading books) is against the Code of Conduct.]
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6 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2007 - 10:15AM
#1817
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The specific 3.X pet peeve: Halflings get racial bonuses to jump and climb, yet wind up being not terribly good at either, because of the STR penalty and the 20ft speed.
Wish for 4e: If a race is supposed to have particular talents, please make sure that a given PCs of that race can actually be good at those things without too much work. If I make a Halfling wizard with Str 6, he's not going to be good at climbing and jumping. But my Halfling barbarian should be better at jumping and climbing than a Half-Orc barbarian of a similar build.
The specific 3.X pet peeve: Halflings are intended to be the premier race choice for the sneaky PC. But Goblins have a better move sliently bonus, and speed 30. Even without a move sliently bonus, the speed 30 makes Kobolds a competitive choice. And PLEASE don't get me started on Whisper Gnomes.
Wish for 4e: See above. If a player choses a race partly to be good at the things that race is known for, it can be a real downer when you discover a different race that does those things better.
Specific 3.X pet peeve: I play a ranger because I want to sneak, or climb and jump, or spot and listen, or whatever. But rangers get track as a bonus feat. That's nice, but now I feel like I'm letting the party down if I don't take some ranks in survival, so I can use the track feat, but I wanted to devote those skill points to other stuff. Likewise, I play a rogue for reason X, having nothing to do with finding or disarming traps. But I have that trapfinding ability, and I feel like it's my duty to the rest of the party to put skill points in search and disable device.
Wish for 4e: Don't give characters "freebie" abilities that then suck up the character's other resources. Even bards and the perform skill might fall under this guideline, but I know you're giving bards a big reworking anyway. I think it might be a good idea to not even have the feats that make skills work in different ways, like track, investigate, and research. I'm interested to see how the principle of "You will be able to fill your party role without having do devote all your discretionary character resources" works with this request.
Thanks
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6 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2007 - 11:54AM
#1818
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Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2005
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The specific 3.X pet peeve: Halflings get racial bonuses to jump and climb, yet wind up being not terribly good at either, because of the STR penalty and the 20ft speed.
Wish for 4e: If a race is supposed to have particular talents, please make sure that a given PCs of that race can actually be good at those things without too much work. If I make a Halfling wizard with Str 6, he's not going to be good at climbing and jumping. But my Halfling barbarian should be better at jumping and climbing than a Half-Orc barbarian of a similar build.
The specific 3.X pet peeve: Halflings are intended to be the premier race choice for the sneaky PC. But Goblins have a better move sliently bonus, and speed 30. Even without a move sliently bonus, the speed 30 makes Kobolds a competitive choice. And PLEASE don't get me started on Whisper Gnomes.
Wish for 4e: See above. If a player choses a race partly to be good at the things that race is known for, it can be a real downer when you discover a different race that does those things better.
Specific 3.X pet peeve: I play a ranger because I want to sneak, or climb and jump, or spot and listen, or whatever. But rangers get track as a bonus feat. That's nice, but now I feel like I'm letting the party down if I don't take some ranks in survival, so I can use the track feat, but I wanted to devote those skill points to other stuff. Likewise, I play a rogue for reason X, having nothing to do with finding or disarming traps. But I have that trapfinding ability, and I feel like it's my duty to the rest of the party to put skill points in search and disable device.
Wish for 4e: Don't give characters "freebie" abilities that then suck up the character's other resources. Even bards and the perform skill might fall under this guideline, but I know you're giving bards a big reworking anyway. I think it might be a good idea to not even have the feats that make skills work in different ways, like track, investigate, and research. I'm interested to see how the principle of "You will be able to fill your party role without having do devote all your discretionary character resources" works with this request.
Thanks
Wow! Amazingly put! I hadn't thought of this before but you're soooo right! I am a fan of sneaky characters and these points are so valid. Thanks for posting this.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2007 - 12:39PM
#1819
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Date Joined:
Mar 13, 2002
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Just to make me happy- other than the mechanics (spell points, basicly) why do folks like Psionics? Why not Magic that works on the same system? I mean, we KNOW that 4th ed Magic is not going to work like 3rd Ed Magic, right? Thus, it seems like the only think (other than fluff) Psionic lovers like is the pell-points like mechanics... which also nigh certainly will not be around in 4th Ed. It will nigh certainly be "At Will, Per Encounter and Per Day" just like Magic and will have similar if not identical effects. So WHY?
You know, about 20 folks ran in here, demanding PSIONICS, and RIGHT NOW! Can any of them answer my question?
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6 years ago ::
Sep 26, 2007 - 12:45PM
#1820
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2007
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You know, about 20 folks ran in here, demanding PSIONICS, and RIGHT NOW! Can any of them answer my question?
For me it is flavor. Quite a few fantasy novels describe magic as a force of will rather than chanting the right mantra and/or having the correct material components/implements.
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