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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:23PM
#21
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When any of you doomsayers can come up with a better idea for less, let me know. Codemonkey, PCGen, Herolab, Redsword..all of them cost money and you must pay extra for the expansions for the books. Cup of coffee sounds about right to me to have everything I buy automatically installed into the computer including dungeon magazine adventure maps. They are not going to offer services for free. Paizo doesn't, their cost is added into their manuals. Its 240$/year for their maps, magazines and pdfs...oh and you dont get a character generator or map maker, dm tools etc. I've been using electronics to compliment my hobby for years and what DnD is offering is on par and better than most of the other implementations that I have seen. Not only that but all of those nifty tools are in one place and seemingly easy to use. I can't wait.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:26PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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So you're angry because they are putting out their own product to compete with the services that third parties provide, and will most likely continue to provide, for you now, at a price?
Simple, go buy the one you like best, for the price you are willing to pay.
E-Tools was Wizards licensed to CMP... they yanked it and are not providing a replacement. The product they are putting out now is unusable for me and is inferier to the product they already had before.
RPG Forge is by CMP and will be coming out just in time to need an upgrade to 4th ed. Assuming the OGL is still available for them, the only thing they would be able to use is the core rules. Any (sublimental )rules I would need to use would have to be hand inputed in and to sell data sets to do that for me will be illegal.
That is why I am angry. DDi is a ransom, pay to use this or don't get it.
Yep, I am angry.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:30PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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Why is charging money to get a PDF second copy of your book and an expansion pack for the computer programs so unreasonable?
And if it's so unreasonable, just buy the book, sit down at your gaming table and play. It's only an online magazine subscription and a complex chat interface.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:33PM
#24
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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If it is online like it is toted to be, it will not be better. I can't see having to wait for my web page to load to see my character evertime I need to level up or add eq. I need to be able to use it offline, or at the very least be able see my character without having to flip though several pages.
This monthly fee is not good for this hobby, and will be the eventual death of D&D.
Edit... didn't see your post name44. It is because that the choice was taken away from me. The character generator I have and the one I want to get is hampered by the fact that it can't support the other books that will come out after the core. To use an inferior online model instead is silly to me and having it ransomed for a monthly fee is unforgivable.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:35PM
#25
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2007
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That is why I am angry. DDi is a ransom, pay to use this or don't get it.
Yep, I am angry.
DDI will be a service, yes. Pay for it or not, yes.
Who are you to say what properties belonging to WotC that they can or cannot charge for?
If they choose to yank all online support or accessories from the game, that is their right. We can go back to the days when all we had were pre-printed character sheets sold by TSR for $10 per pack, and it was a copyright violation to run off copies of them, if you wish.
Perhaps you should take this energy you are spending working yourself up into a frenzy and apply it towards figuring out exactly where along the way you came to possess this sense of entitlement you hold so dear?
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:38PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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Dear Wizards,
I have one more question about D&D Insider that I have not yet seen answered. Which parts of D&DI are part of the coffee-cup-payment deal (paid once), and which are payed on monthly basis?
As far as I could find:
- All the books come with a coffee-cup-deal for an e-book version.
- The Dungeon and the Dragon magazines are paid per month.
What about the digital gametable tool and character creation software?
Grtz,
-SchemerRat
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:50PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2006
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E-Tools was Wizards licensed to CMP... they yanked it and are not providing a replacement. The product they are putting out now is unusable for me and is inferier to the product they already had before.
RPG Forge is by CMP and will be coming out just in time to need an upgrade to 4th ed. Assuming the OGL is still available for them, the only thing they would be able to use is the core rules. Any (sublimental )rules I would need to use would have to be hand inputed in and to sell data sets to do that for me will be illegal.
That is why I am angry. DDi is a ransom, pay to use this or don't get it.
Yep, I am angry.
The OGL will still exist in 4th edition.
If I decide to sell an auto-repair manual for $14.99, I am not ransoming information away from the world. It's a product. People pay for products. Ransoming is generally taking away something that is not yours, and charging someone to get it back.
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:51PM
#28
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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I want something, I go buy it. I don't lease, I rent only when no alternative presents itself, and I don't pay monthly fees to web sites or online games.
I simply want a character generator. Wizards took away the one I used in the past and seriously hampered the one I intent to use. This is so that the Online one will be the only real choice and it is ransomed for a monthly fee that I don't like getting hampered into.
120 dollars a year is a lot to ask to replace my 70 dollar program. It is a lot more since I can't own the program, have it in my computer and can only access it online.
Is it really that hard to understand why I am so mad at this. The license for E-Tools was yanked in September, and the only thing to replace it now is this thing inside a DDi thing. This is not a replacement nor is it going to be up to standard that E-Tools (5.666) has set.
I simply will not pay the ransom and hope for a stand alone version to be sold in the future that will do better than the one slaved to the web page.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:55PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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The OGL will still exist in 4th edition.
If I decide to sell an auto-repair manual for $14.99, I am not ransoming information away from the world. It's a product. People pay for products. Ransoming is generally taking away something that is not yours, and charging someone to get it back.
I paid for E-Tools. Now it is unsupported and will not have 4th ed at all. It is useless.
Now the only replacement is an online product that, by design, is inferior to the one I already have.
Perhaps extortion is a better word.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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6 years ago ::
Aug 18, 2007 - 2:57PM
#30
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2007
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I want something, I go buy it. I don't lease, I rent only when no alternative presents itself, and I don't pay monthly fees to web sites or online games.
I simply want a character generator. Wizards took away the one I used in the past and seriously hampered the one I intent to use. This is so that the Online one will be the only real choice and it is ransomed for a monthly fee that I don't like getting hampered into.
120 dollars a year is a lot to ask to replace my 70 dollar program. It is a lot more since I can't own the program, have it in my computer and can only access it online.
Is it really that hard to understand why I am so mad at this. The license for E-Tools was yanked in September, and the only thing to replace it now is this thing inside a DDi thing. This is not a replacement nor is it going to be up to standard that E-Tools (5.666) has set.
I simply will not pay the ransom and hope for a stand alone version to be sold in the future that will do better than the one slaved to the web page.
You never had a licensed character generator prior to 2000, and the release of 3.0 either, and yet your world continued to turn.
I'm sure that some third party will eventually grant your wish via the OGL in some manner in the near future. Let's not hold our breath and kick our feet while waiting.
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