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Switch to Forum Live View Is Multiclassing in 4ed?
6 years ago  ::  Sep 16, 2007 - 6:53PM #11
Otto_the_Bugbear
Date Joined: Jan 22, 2002
Posts: 839

ancalimohtar wrote:

How exactly does this work with more classes?

Ftr2/Wiz2:
Okay, so half the fighter levels count as Wiz levels towards Wiz casting progression. And half Wiz levels count as Ftr levels toward Ftr feat (or whatever) progression. So you're essentially Ftr3/Wiz3. Fine.

But now you add two Clr levels: Ftr2/Wiz2/Clr2:
Now are you a virtual-Ftr4/Wiz4/Clr4?

Keep adding more classes:
Ftr2/Wiz2/Clr2/Rog2/Sorc2/Druid2 becomes Ftr7/Wiz7/Clr7/Rog7/Sorc7/Druid7.
Leaving game balance out of it, it becomes a ridiculous headache to keep track of what levels add how many virtual levels to which ability progressions in which classes, for a total of what.


Good questions. I wonder how the ToB handles that?

Now, all this will assume that each class has real abilities that are both class specific, plus they're actually level appropriate for when they're gained. Something like the way ToB handles it with better and better maneuvers.

A few definitions before I get rolling. This is to help define what I'm talking about. Overall, it works basically just like ToB, but we need names for each class-specific combat option.
Maneuver = Fighter specific tricks, only gained through taking an actual Fighter level. These have an Initiator Level (like caster level in 3.X).
Spell = Arcane Spell, only gained through taking an actual Wizard level. These have a Caster Level (like caster level in 3.X).
Prayer = Divine Spell, only gained through taking an actual Cleric level. These have a Piety Level (like caster level in 3.X).
Trick = Rogue specific tricks, only gained through taking an actual Rogue level. These have a Trickery level (like caster level in 3.X).
Charm = Sorcerer specific tricks, only gained through taking an actual Sorcerer level. These have an Influence level (like caster level in 3.X).

So, the routine becomes this...

Level 1
Fighter 1 - Initiator Level 1, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 1st level play)

Level 2
Fighter 2 - Initiator Level 2, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play)

Level 3
Wizard 1 - Caster Level 2, Spell Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); Initiator Level 2, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); Also, at this stage, he doesn't gain any new Maneuvers, since he didn't actually take a level of Fighter.

Level 4
Wizard 2 - Caster Level 3, Spell Level 2 (appropriate for 3rd level play); Initiator Level 3, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); Again, no new maneuvers since he didn't take a level of Fighter.

Level 5
Cleric 1 - Piety Level 3, Prayer Level 2 (appropriate for 3rd level play); Caster Level 3, Spell Level 2 (appropriate for 3rd level play); Initiator Level 3, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); No new maneuvers since he didn't take a level of Fighter. No new Spells, since he didn't take a level of Wizard.

Level 6
Cleric 2 - Piety Level 4, Prayer Level 2 (appropriate for 4th level play); Caster Level 4, Spell Level 2 (appropriate for 3rd level play); Initiator Level 4, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); No new maneuvers since he didn't take a level of Fighter. No new Spells, since he didn't take a level of Wizard.

Time for a pause.

At level 6, he now has # of divine spell known as a 2nd level cleric, with a highest spell level of 2, and casts them at CL 4. He has # of arcane spells known as a 2nd level wizard, with a highest spell level of 2, and casts them at CL 4. (Oh, and his BAB is ****.

Level 7
Rogue 1 - Trickery Level 4, Trick level 2 (appropriate for 4th level play); Piety Level 4, Prayer Level 2 (appropriate for 4th level play); Caster Level 4, Spell Level 2 (appropriate for 3rd level play); Initiator Level 4, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); No new maneuvers since he didn't take a level of Fighter. No new Spells, since he didn't take a level of Wizard. No new Prayers, since he didn't take a level of Cleric.

Level 8
Rogue 2 - Trickery Level 5, Trick level 3 (appropriate for 5th level play); Piety Level 5, Prayer Level 2 (appropriate for 4th level play); Caster Level 5, Spell Level 2 (appropriate for 3rd level play); Initiator Level 5, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); No new maneuvers since he didn't take a level of Fighter. No new Spells, since he didn't take a level of Wizard. No new Prayers, since he didn't take a level of Cleric.

Level 9
Sorcerer 1 - Influence Level 5, Charm level 3 (appropriate for 5th level play); Trickery Level 5, Trick level 3 (appropriate for 5th level play); Piety Level 5, Prayer Level 2 (appropriate for 4th level play); Caster Level 5, Spell Level 2 (appropriate for 3rd level play); Initiator Level 5, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); No new maneuvers since he didn't take a level of Fighter. No new Spells, since he didn't take a level of Wizard. No new Prayers, since he didn't take a level of Cleric.

Level 10
Sorcerer 2 - Influence Level 6, Charm level 3 (appropriate for 6th level play); Trickery Level 6, Trick level 3 (appropriate for 5th level play); Piety Level 6, Prayer Level 2 (appropriate for 4th level play); Caster Level 6, Spell Level 2 (appropriate for 3rd level play); Initiator Level 6, Maneuver Level 1 (appropriate for 2nd level play); No new maneuvers since he didn't take a level of Fighter. No new Spells, since he didn't take a level of Wizard. No new Prayers, since he didn't take a level of Cleric. No new tricks, since he didn't take a level of Rogue.

Second pause.

Fighter - He has a couple 1st level maneuvers, though his initiator level is boosted to 6th. He only has the initial crop chosen, plus what was gained at 2nd level, so very few of them.
Wizard - He has a couple 1st level spells, and a couple 2nd level spells, though his caster level is boosted to 6th. He has very few of those low level spells.
Cleric - Like wizard, except he gets to have 2nd level spells at CL 6, and very few of them.
Rogue - 3rd level tricks (as for 5th level play), and very few of them.
Sorcerer - 3rd level spells at CL 6th, and very few of them.

If you want, I'll keep going. All the way through 20 levels if necessary. Right now this is starting to look a lot less alarming with a longer explanation, and applying the ToB concept across the board.

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6 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2007 - 8:42AM #12
jtrowell
Date Joined: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 81
Note that levels from the same power source might be fully added to your caster/intitiator/whatever level :

A rogue 2 that take a level in figther might be able to learn his figther manoeuver from the level 2 list.

In fact, if all classes use a manoeuver or spell system, it might be viable to keep full spellcasting level when multiclassing :

fighter 1 : some level 1 manoeuvers
fighter 2 : more level 1 manoeuvers
fighter 2/wizard 1 : learn some level 2 spells (caster level 3), and initiator level (for fighter manoeuvers) increase to 3
fighter 3/wizard 1 : level 2 manoeuvers, caster level and initiator level both increased to 4

and so on ...

Seem overpowered ? Not exactly, as such a character would have the same power level as someone with only one class, but will have his special powers coming from two power sources : martial and arcane.

He would have some spells, and be as powerful as a monoclassed wizard the same level, but wouldn't know as many spells.
He would be as powerful as a monoclassed fighter, but would know as many manoeuvers.

It all classes are done with the same basic structure (with special powers gained each level for all classes, plus feats and talents each other levels as in SW SAGA) so that no class is gimped by multiclassing, it might work (if done correctly and heavily tested)

Currently it couldn't work in 3.5, with some classes using only at will powers (fighters), and others only /per day powers (spellcasters)

With all classes having at will, per encounter, and per day powers, multiclassing might mean chosing powers from another class, but not losing raw power.
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6 years ago  ::  Sep 17, 2007 - 11:37AM #13
Frugal
Date Joined: Feb 3, 2006
Posts: 206

Shuricain wrote:

I'm having some trouble finding out if multiclassing has been explicated addressed in 4ed. From what I've gotten, it seems that they might be focusing more on flushing out the hybrid classes rather than implement multiclassing. I guess the reason for this is so that the classes have this more 'definite' rolls in the game and its much easier to have a class called Spellsword than Wizard/Fighter.


Honestly, my impression was the opposite. As has already been mentioned, we've been promised that multiclassing works at any level. The general impression I've gotten is that the design philosophy is more toward having fewer classes but more customisation/options within those classes (which cover the roles of other classes), with the promise of workable multiclassing as well then we end up with no need for hybrid classes since you should be able to pull off the same result simply with multiclassing.

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6 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2007 - 7:20AM #14
kheros
Date Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Posts: 44
hear hear, fewer classes and more breadth of play for those classes! :D
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