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6 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2007 - 7:00PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jan 16, 2006
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Dice rolling isn't doing something when you'd rather get it over with and back to the banter.
Only one cent this time.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2007 - 7:15PM
#12
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Big time waster: Looking up spells and effects, as mentioned above.
We need a digital database of spells or whatever. WOTC needs to make it, or at least stop threatening to sue fans when they make it themselves. When I play with a laptop at the table, and someone casts burning hands and isn't sure exactly what the numerical effects are, I should have only have to type "bur" into my laptop and select "burning hands" and read the spell description.
Books are a thing of the past. If you're charging monthly membership fees, give us something worth our money, or at least stop suing fans who are enterprising enough to spend money AND time bettering the game.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2007 - 7:18PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Dec 21, 2001
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One thing I find is often a cause of the "Oh crap it's been 3 hours" effect is spell casters. Specifically the ones who don't know what spell they're going to cast, or what they were going to cast is no longer needed/something else would be better.
When I play a spell caster I make my decisions and rolls ahead of time to aid my DM. My turn only lasts a minute or so. But some of the other players aren't so kind.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2007 - 7:47PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2007
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Time wasters.
Working out iniative order in a combat. If a GM has five monsters and five players then this is annoying enough as the GM collects rolls and marks people in order and the monsters in order ( if minions increase battles to twenty monsters then this will be a true headache ). Just have one side go and then the other side go. One spot check is used if the situation is unclear as which side goes first and in most situations the encounter should dictate which side has iniative.
Rolling for every single skill all the time. Taking 10 should be the default mode unless something happens to make a 'panic' or 'reaction' style of check. The GM can thus note for example the thief has a spot of X and if the thief is in the lead then the thief does or does not see Y. It simplifies the math and makes it easier to prepare an adventure in advance. If the thief chooses to sneak then the GM knows which people that the thief can get by and which ones would spot the thief.
Clear up things like dodge feat needs to be specified ( it works against everyone ). Shield spell is 360. Keeps the GM and player having to constantly 'turn their minature/describe to GM' the character's facing. It is either a benefit or it is not a benefit.
Build more bonuses and buffs into the main class and leveling. Altering buffs during an encounter, especially when they have to be checked for mixing and matching, slows things down. Also, have limits to the number of buffs per character to prevent the player and GM from having to go through a whole list to add things up or check for the different applications.
Avoid things like the Crusader that is getting randomly dealt from his pre-selected choices. If the player chooses a feat or a talent then let the player manage the usage. An extra random step is frustrating and slow.
For spells like summon and possibly polymorph, a GM tool that prints out a stat card instantly or creates a stat block for the GM to use would be good. Similar to this is that there should be choices for players but avoid unlimited choice items and abilities. Nothing says slow then a person using the Guild prestige class to fill an empty spell slot with the perfect spell for the moment.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2007 - 5:58AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
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I agree with just about everything in Smerg's post. Dodge always bothered me in particular, in that I always had to remember and declare a dodge foe each round. It seems like a small thing but in practice it felt clunky and wasteful. Would dodge really be broken if it was just +1 AC always? That's probably another discussion As some other have stated, I also agree with the excessive cross-referencing. There's strong indication that the designers are including all relevant monster powers in their individual write-ups. The worst offenders being spell lookups when running monsters, only to find the spell say something like "see lesser version of this spell". Ugh..
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6 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2007 - 7:47AM
#16
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One way to speed up things would be to have one "to hit" roll per action and one "save" roll for defense at most.
e.g. Grapple must beat a specific DC for the type of action modified by the target's grapple score. Preventing a wizard's somatic components would have an easier DC than smashing his head against the floor, but both would only require one roll.
or e.g. Instead of a roll to beat spell resistance the Monster (or character) is just given an add on their appropriate save Will, Fort, or Reflex.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2007 - 10:41AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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I don't mind the dice rolling, the dice rolling means "we're doing something."
I agree with Tom's points here. Our group is pretty casual playing once a month. Half the fun is the potential for a one roll on a D20 and the ensuing head slaps and moning of pending doom! The other half of the fun is the Crit at just the right moment and the cheers and back slaps of a victory. For spell chuckers there is that great personal feeling when you do that 15D6 chainlightning roll!
Counting the adds is very frustrating but other players provide calculators and help counting.
The most frustrating part is the spell research especially at high levels where a character has enough spells to completely change tactics mid battle. The problem is we play so rarely we get bitten by history. For example in 3e a spell was a ranged spell and in 3.5 it is a touch spell. DOH! Now the player has to go findout what other sleezes they can come up with to help the party.
Removing some die rolls would work for spell chuckers and speed up play. For example mirror image could must be level based, no roll needed. Some buffs could be the same way.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2007 - 10:52AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2003
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I don't mind the dice rolling, the dice rolling means "we're doing something."
Just remeber with out the dice rolling part all your doing is telling a story. Look, the problem isn't whether to roll dice in 4e. Instead, it's figuring out where the diminishing return on "detail" begins with the amount of dice-rolling required.
Example. Two or three sneak attacks from a mid to high level 3.5 rogue is just too time-consuming (and boring) for the amount of variation the dice actually demonstrate. 6d6 is almost always going to hover within a couple of points of 20. And a couple of HP for mid and high level characters means nothing. And, no, the odd variation on 6d6 (26 points! woo-hoo!) is not worth the time.
4e should (and will) retain dice-rolling...but there will be more flat and large bonuses to few actual dice (the above example will probably translate as 2d6 + 15 or something).
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6 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2007 - 6:18PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2007
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I'd only add that the rules should eliminate extra phases or steps to figure things out. If I cast a spell, then I'd rather make one roll (or maybe two) and call it a round. I don't want to make an attack, then beat SR, then roll damage, then saving throws, then .... It's those nightmare 10-step actions that kill me as a DM. If I'm doing it behind the screen, the players get all nervous and suspicious. If I'm making them do it, they get all flustered and feel stupid, its even worse if there's a lot of "spell research" going into it.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2007 - 7:08PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
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Well at the games I play in are usually rather large (around 8 players) so even a couple of extraneous die rolls can really bog things down. Rules checks and player indecisiveness are also big time sucks.
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