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6 years ago ::
Sep 04, 2007 - 6:43PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2006
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I believe the whole class and level system should be thrown away and instead players should be able to buy characteristics like modules. So you have some points and earn them instead of xp. No more levels and no more classes, everyone can buy everything. Sure there has to be a tree like system for feats so you have to buy some basic fighting feats to be able to use the better ones. Since you know how much points you have spent monsters could be picked by points of group, not levels. This would add a very deep experience for players and many opportunities for good roleplaying. Sticking with classes is pressing the players in forms and sticking with levels is giving them sometimes way to much new feats and skills at once. Sure I know, 4th Edition will stick to classes and feats. Just my thoughts after more than 10 years of playing d&d 
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6 years ago ::
Sep 04, 2007 - 7:35PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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You are looking for the GURPS system. It's a nice system. And as long as it's out there, D&D can and should remain D&D, maintaining the features that make it unique rather than aping one of its competitors.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 04, 2007 - 7:52PM
#3
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Yes, GURPS. Or the HERO system, that's a good one too, even more flexible than GURPS if much heavier on the number-crunching.
There's also TRI-STAT, but I think the publisher went under recently.
In any case, none of that is D&D. Part of what makes D&D what it is is the class and level system. Without that, it's not D&D anymore.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2007 - 3:07AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2006
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I never played GURPS or Hero. So I really just postet my thoughts about what I think would be an evolution.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2007 - 3:58AM
#5
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Of all things that can be tweaked/modified/altered. The Class/Level system would be the greatest detriment to the D&D game if lost. D&D (and its d20 hanger ons) is the only playable and fun game left on the market using the Class/Level system. All other good systems moved away from Class/Levels to be LESS like D&D.
If you want a class and levelless fantasy game play Fuzion's Fantasy plugin, Gurps, Hero or if you like anime BESM. D&D IS Class and Levels.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2007 - 4:43AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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It would not be an evolution as it won't be D&D anymore.
(one can argue that evolution is about becomming a different species, but...)
A classless system is just no compatible with the current system. In a class & level based system you pay for thing that you might not need. Like better saves or skills. One might argue that just buying BAB and HP would be the way to go. Now this all has to be replaced to be compatible with the classless&levelless system.
HP have to be out, replaced by condition steps as in shadowrun, Ars magica or WoD. One way to go is the system in True20, where hp is replaced with a toughness save (a new save which do not increase with level, only with feats and armor).
BAB has to be a skill, but potentially a different one for each weapon category (like axes, bows, swords, etc.) so that it won't become THE skill to increase.
it won't be D&D anymore
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6 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2007 - 4:52AM
#7
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A classless, levelless D&D might be a good idea, if you like the thought of all-factotum parties.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2007 - 4:55AM
#8
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I don't know the systems for GURPS and other such games, but surely the problems of BAB and HP could be resolved by providing different amounts of HP and BAB with each 'purchase?' For example, buying attributes usually attributed to frail characters (arcane casting, etc.) would give a small amount of HP and a fraction of BAB, whereas taking a skill more typically martial or tough would give you more?
Not that I am actually suggesting that we get rid of the class/level system. It is a core element of D&D that makes it accessible to new players, and it's all I've ever known!
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6 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2007 - 5:00AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2006
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I've played a number of different RPG systems, most of them class/level free. To be honest, I like class/level systems for games along the lines of D&D. While D&D offers many avenues and styles of play, really at it's core it is a combat heavy (not combat only) system AND a party based system. It is most easy to balance a party when you clearly know who is capable of what, this is in large what the Roles being introduced are about and those stem from the class based system.
Further to that, on the DM side it is much easier to develop effective and challenging but not insurmountable challenges when you have a kind of power ranking to the players. This is, by in large, what the level part of things is for. Obviously you don't want 3 level 4 characters on 1 level 2 NPC as a challenging encounter. It's much more difficult to balance these things when systems are more open and undefined. It gives more freedom to the characters you make which can be fun but is better for a more social/political style game than the dungeon crawling conflict that is most common in D&D.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2007 - 5:10AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I don't know the systems for GURPS and other such games, but surely the problems of BAB and HP could be resolved by providing different amounts of HP and BAB with each 'purchase?'
The idea behind the classless/levelless system is that you purchace BAB and HP along with skills, feat, magic ability and whatnot. Thus HP/BAB is not tied to anything.
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