In this essay, I intend to tackle some of the most debated topics regarding paladins and their behavior. I can not possibly respond to every situation a DM can dream up, nor do I intend to. I simply hope that this article will serve as a helpful, self-consistent guide for players and DMs who find themselves at a loss for how to handle various situations. I hope the reader will realize that many great thinkers have spent lifetimes considering these kinds of moral, ethical, and philosophical issues, and all have failed to come to any conclusion that is satisfactory to everyone. I can not hope to do better than they.
From the PHB v3.5, here are all of the statements regarding a paladin’s code of conduct, social behavior, and overall character. (Bolded text is rules text, non-bold text is descriptive.)
• compassion to pursue good • will to uphold law • power to defeat evil • purity and devotion • final hope that cannot be extinguished • demonstrate bravery • develop martial skills • learn tactics • find ways to do good • leading a mighty campaign against evil • help others • healing their wounds • curing diseases • destroy evil • smite evil foes • turn away undead • swear to follow a code of conduct that is in line with lawfulness and goodness • scrupulous in observing religious duties • appreciate working with anyone who is brave, honest, and committed to good • cannot abide evil acts by their companions • work with a variety of people quite different from themselves • charismatic • trustworthy • well respected • a fine leader
• Code of Conduct Rules Text: o must be lawful good, loses all class abilities if willingly commits an evil act or grossly violates the code of conduct o respect legitimate authority o act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison and so forth) o help those in need (with provisions) o punish those who harm or threaten innocents • Associates Rules Text: o may adventure with...any of good or neutral alignment o will never knowingly associate with evil characters nor continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code o may only accept henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good
A careful examination of the rules text will show that, clearly, much is open to interpretation. Most disputes over paladin behavior seem to come from conflicting views of what constitutes a “gross” violation of the code of conduct and what constitutes an evil act. For example, it seems obvious that a paladin would not lie to his superiors or friends, but is it ok for a paladin to lie to a demon? Some say yes, some say no. Similar arguments revolve around the question of under what circumstances a paladin is not bound by a promise.
All these dilemmas are compounded by the endless confusion concerning alignments. Concrete examples of this are: “Can a paladin slay kobold women and children?” and “Should a paladin use his detect evil ability on everyone he meets and then proceed to duke it out with anyone who comes up evil on his ‘radar’?”
Finally, there are the limitless questions involving a choice between committing evil A and evil B. Thus you have dilemmas like, “Should the paladin choose to kill the baby and keep the demon imprisoned or unleash the demon on all of humanity to save the baby?”
I can see two general perspectives on all these quandaries: the absolutist and the relativist. Simply put, an absolutist would say, “A paladin may never lie no matter what. If he does he will break his code and not be a paladin any more.” A relativist would reply, “Well, realistically, it is impossible for any person to go without lying his whole life. If any lie would strip a paladin of his status, then no one would ever be a paladin for more than a few days or weeks. This is just not reasonable. Plus, to some small extent, ends do justify means. If the paladin can fool the bad guy into releasing his hostages by lying to him, he has done a good thing.”
The goal of this essay is not to debate real-world morality. Yet, real-world morality is our only compass, our only reference, so there must be some entanglement of real-life morality and in-game morality.
Can a person be evil if he never does anything evil? Yes. A person’s moral compass is what determines his alignment, not his actions. It is easily conceivable that there are entities in the game that have never had the courage or opportunity to commit an evil act, but have always had the desire to do so. Example: A paladin does a detect evil sweep of the common room of a tavern, and notes that the bald guy in the corner is evil. The bald guy is a simple farmer with no adventuring spirit, no particular skills except “Profession (farmer)” with 8 ranks. He’s a grumpy person through and through. He resents his life. He resents that he was born into a life of poverty and hard labor. He hates the people around him, hates the world, he hates the town he lives in, and he would do just about anything to change his situation including killing, stealing, maiming, bribing (if he had anything to bribe with), etc. But the guy has been a completely harmless citizen his entire life! He is evil, but fate has decided that he will remain a nobody.
This realization helps us make decisions on two of the most contentious paladin issues. First, it shows that a paladin is not justified in smiting without discrimination each and every evil creature he detects. In real life, it is not fair to jail someone who has done nothing wrong (but remember that actively plotting to do something wrong IS doing something wrong) even if they are horrible, detestable people. I believe a paladin is bound by the same standard. Evil thoughts and daydreams are not punishable offenses, only evil deeds committed willingly.
Second, a paladin forced into the uncomfortable predicament of choosing “evil A” or “evil B” can not be stripped of his status, regardless of his choice. In and of itself, killing an innocent, for example, is an evil deed. But everything has context. In and of itself, killing ANYTHING is an evil deed. Context must be considered in these cases. A paladin must regularly choose between the two “evils” of a) killing the marauding orc vs. b) allowing the orc to kill men, women, and children. There are few who would argue against a paladin choosing option a. Why? Because he has chosen the lesser of two evils. He has the greater good in mind and has chosen “the lesser of two evils.” The paladin’s moral compass, in this case, has stayed true to justice and goodness.
Why would we treat any other choice differently? The paladin who must choose between a) kill the innocent vs. b) unleash the demon is not willingly committing evil. He is simply deciding which action has worse consequences for all of humanity. Though (in and of itself) killing the innocent would be an evil act, he is clearly not committing it of his own volition. This is not a willing act, it is a forced act. His hand is forced by unkind circumstance. Thus, there is no conceivable way this paladin would be judged unfavorably by his deity. So long as a paladin chooses the least evil of all available options, his moral compass is pointing true. All this means that when we read the statement, “loses all class abilities if he willingly commits an evil act…” in the rules text, we must not ignore the word willingly, lest we begin judging paladins’ behavior unfairly.
What does a paladin do with the kobold females and young after he has slaughtered all the kobold warriors? I believe that the alignment system was invented to simplify decisions like this, rather than complicate them. Any creature whose race or class is described as being “always (lawful, neutral, chaotic) evil” CAN be killed by a paladin even if they have not committed any specific evil act. This seems to contradict what I’ve just finished saying in previous paragraphs. Consider this question: “Should the lawful-good farmer ruthlessly butcher rabbits because he knows that they will grow up, reproduce, and decimate his crops?” Certainly, farmers do, and it is not considered evil, generally. Unfortunate, but not evil. If a paladin can kill neutral rabbits, how much more so then when the paladin KNOWS that the kobolds that he leaves alive will certainly multiply and come back to wreak more destruction? It is true that the Monster Manual states that even some “always evil” monsters are not evil. However, a good DM will make the circumstances extremely rare, and significant enough that the paladin will know the difference. Take, for example, this scene: DM: You lose your abilities. Paladin: Why? What did I do? DM: You killed a nest full of kobolds, and one of them happened to be good. Paladin: Well how was I supposed to know that? There was nothing setting him apart from the rest! I couldn’t detect evil on every single creature, there wasn’t time. DM: Too bad. You lose… A good DM will construct a situation more like this: DM: This looks like the kobold lunch-room. A large number of kobold young are taking turns beating up on one particular runt kobold that is shackled to the wall. Paladin: Detect Evil on the shackled one. DM: To your complete astonishment, he’s NOT evil! Paladin: Wow! Wonders never cease. I’ll slaughter everyone except him…
A good DM should provide good role-playing clues whenever he intends to break from the norm in this way, and they should always be significant plot points in the campaign story. After all, what is the point of throwing in a random good kobold in a nest full of evil ones if his presence there has no significance to the story?
The major difference between the evil farmer in the tavern and the kobolds is that humans’ alignment is “any” and kobolds’ alignment is “always evil.” It is an important distinction because it indicates that the farmer is much more likely to be “reformed” than the kobolds. The farmer therefore deserves the benefit of the doubt, the kobolds do not. Similarly, one could say that the rabbits’ alignment is “always destructive to crops.” Rarely (probably never) will a person run into a rabbit that is NOT destructive, thus killing all that threaten your crops is justified, whether they’re babies or not. So if the kobold race has the alignment “always evil” (read, “always aggressively destructive to civilization” certainly a paladin is justified in exterminating them, males, females, and young. I strongly advise against involving decisions that are more morally ambiguous than this in the game.
So if a paladin does detect that the farmer in the corner is evil, how should that affect his actions? The paladin would prefer to have nothing to do with the individual. He would probably warn his friends concerning their dealings with the individual, and that is about as far as he would take the matter. If the paladin found it necessary to deal with the evil farmer (let us pretend the paladin needs to buy a pig and the farmer is the only pig farmer around), he will do so in the most expedient way and be done with it. The paladin will realize that the best way to help such an individual is to simply be polite, be kind, be merciful, and be generous (as usual). Even doing so, the paladin will realize that no matter what he does, his actions are only more likely to embitter the evil farmer more. Usually there is nothing to be done about it. Sometimes, an opportunity to influence the evil person towards good will present itself, but even then, the good deed is as likely to be spat upon as it is to be welcomed.
How would a paladin know whether or not to accept a particular henchman/follower/cohort? Just because they don’t come up evil on the radar doesn’t mean they’re lawful good. This is by far the least of the paladin’s worries. A paladin can simply require that the candidate submit to an interview under a zone of truth spell. After 5 to 10 minutes of questioning and discussion, the paladin should have a good idea of whether or not the candidate has the appropriate moral outlook for the job. Sense motive skill comes in handy here as well. It is possible for a paladin to be fooled, but not likely. Again, the DM should make exceptions extremely rare and important to the plot.
What is “legitimate authority?” This term is by far the most ambiguous term the PHB uses in describing paladin-ly behavior. A paladin should understand that not all governments are good governments, not all parents are good parents, and not all bosses are good bosses. However, the alignment of authority figures, whether governments, parents, or bosses, are not what determines their legitimacy. The main questions a paladin should ask when deciding whether an authority is legitimate or not are, “Did this authority figure obtain his authority in the normal way? Is this authority figure acting within its societal role?” A person who kidnaps a child and claims to be its parent certainly did not obtain his parental role in a normal way (via birth or adoption), so his authority over the child is not legitimate. The counselor who usurped the throne by having the good king assassinated did not come by his authority in the normal way (via the rightful succession or appointment of an heir), so a paladin would not feel compelled to “respect” that authority. However, during the course of his adventures a paladin might find himself in a country where it is perfectly normal for one ruler to be assassinated by the next. In this case, the paladin must respect that authority, even though he may detest it.
How must a paladin respond to authority that is not legitimate? Simply put, a paladin does not need to feel compelled to obey it. Also, he would feel free to encourage other affected individuals to disobey it. What does it mean for a paladin to respect legitimate authority? Simply put, a paladin must abide by its orders when it is acting within its role. Children must obey their parents, citizens must submit to their government, employees must submit to the will of their employers, etc.
But what if the government/parent/boss is legitimate but abusive (evil)? Malicious acts against good people can never be condoned by a paladin. Any authority who abuses his power out of wickedness to the detriment of its subjects should be removed or replaced. Abusive governments should be overthrown, children should be removed from abusive parents, and abusive bosses should be “fired.” This rule is not without exception. A paladin who makes a visit to Hell would be quite content to see demons tearing each other to pieces. The manifestation of a paladin’s power makes it proof-positive that he has divine authority in the world, hence the manifestation of his powers. He knows he has been put in a position of privilege so that he can defend those people who are unable to defend themselves, whoever or wherever they may be. Unlike in real life, a paladin knows that what he does, he does with the good blessings of his god, and that he has been given divine authority (an authority higher than any mortal authority) to bring justice to the world. It must be so, otherwise the paladin would not be a paladin.
nightwing]In this essay, I intend to tackle some of the most debated topics regarding paladins and their behavior.  wrote:
In this essay, I intend to tackle some of the most debated topics regarding paladins and their behavior. I can not possibly respond to every situation a DM can dream up, nor do I intend to. I simply hope that this article will serve as a helpful, self-consistent guide for players and DMs who find themselves at a loss for how to handle various situations. I hope the reader will realize that many great thinkers have spent lifetimes considering these kinds of moral, ethical, and philosophical issues, and all have failed to come to any conclusion that is satisfactory to everyone. I can not hope to do better than they.
One caveat here: in D&D, we would be well-advised to turn to Kant for guidance. (The Alignment system is very much akin to his moral philosophy.)
nightwing]A careful examination of the rules text will show that, clearly, much is open to interpretation.  wrote:
A careful examination of the rules text will show that, clearly, much is open to interpretation. Most disputes over paladin behavior seem to come from conflicting views of what constitutes a “gross” violation of the code of conduct and what constitutes an evil act.
Evil in D&D is fairly well-explained in the PHB. Problems arise when people insist on taking their real-world (consequentialist) intuitions and ramming them into the game.
nightwing]For example, it seems obvious that a paladin would not lie to his superiors or friends, but is it ok for a paladin to lie to a demon?  wrote:
For example, it seems obvious that a paladin would not lie to his superiors or friends, but is it ok for a paladin to lie to a demon? Some say yes, some say no. Similar arguments revolve around the question of under what circumstances a paladin is not bound by a promise.
The deontologist will say that it is never acceptable to lie; however, they might admit that there are tiers of ill-doing. So, to clarify: the Paladin should not lie, even to a demon. If they do lie to a demon (in order to protect others, for example) they should be required to atone. Extenuating circumstances might allow for the Paladin some leeway - keeping their Paladin powers in the immediate situation, but losing them if they show no recognition that they did the wrong thing, even if it was for the 'right' reasons.
(For the time being, exclude white lies from the above. They do seem to fill a different category, as the intention is not to mislead another for one's own sake; rather, to protect their feelings. I tend to think it's still not the sort of thing that a Paladin ought to do, but it's hard to call the act outright 'evil'. If I were DMing for a Paladin that told a white lie, I'd probably talk to the player about it.)
nightwing][on dilemmas]I can see two general perspectives on all these quandaries:  wrote:
[on dilemmas]I can see two general perspectives on all these quandaries: the absolutist and the relativist. Simply put, an absolutist would say, “A paladin may never lie no matter what. If he does he will break his code and not be a paladin any more.” A relativist would reply, “Well, realistically, it is impossible for any person to go without lying his whole life. If any lie would strip a paladin of his status, then no one would ever be a paladin for more than a few days or weeks. This is just not reasonable. Plus, to some small extent, ends do justify means. If the paladin can fool the bad guy into releasing his hostages by lying to him, he has done a good thing.”
You're describing deontological (duty-based; most famously, Kantian) morality as 'absolutist' and consequentialist (literally, consequences-based; most famously, Utilitarian) morality as 'relativist'. This description is inaccurate: many Utilitarians have been ruthlessly absolutist in their day, and bona fide relativists usually wouldn't even admit of a good or evil beyond one's own subjective interpretations.
nightwing]Can a person be evil if he never does anything evil?  wrote:
Can a person be evil if he never does anything evil? Yes. A person’s moral compass is what determines his alignment, not his actions. It is easily conceivable that there are entities in the game that have never had the courage or opportunity to commit an evil act, but have always had the desire to do so. Example: A paladin does a detect evil sweep of the common room of a tavern, and notes that the bald guy in the corner is evil. The bald guy is a simple farmer with no adventuring spirit, no particular skills except “Profession (farmer)” with 8 ranks. He’s a grumpy person through and through. He resents his life. He resents that he was born into a life of poverty and hard labor. He hates the people around him, hates the world, he hates the town he lives in, and he would do just about anything to change his situation including killing, stealing, maiming, bribing (if he had anything to bribe with), etc. But the guy has been a completely harmless citizen his entire life! He is evil, but fate has decided that he will remain a nobody.
I don't find the example remotely plausible. Are you seriously claiming that such a malicious individual would never lie? Or that, if they did lie, they would feel that they had done wrong?
nightwing]This realization helps us make decisions on two of the most contentious paladin issues.  wrote:
This realization helps us make decisions on two of the most contentious paladin issues. First, it shows that a paladin is not justified in smiting without discrimination each and every evil creature he detects.
We already knew that. Good characters have "respect for life".
nightwing]In real life, it is not fair to jail someone who has done nothing wrong (but remember that actively plotting to do something wrong IS doing something wrong) even if they are horrible, detestable people.  wrote:
In real life, it is not fair to jail someone who has done nothing wrong (but remember that actively plotting to do something wrong IS doing something wrong) even if they are horrible, detestable people. I believe a paladin is bound by the same standard. Evil thoughts and daydreams are not punishable offenses, only evil deeds committed willingly.
The Paladin should be held to an even higher standard than real-world authority. (Obviously. )
nightwing]Second, a paladin forced into the uncomfortable predicament of choosing “ wrote:
Second, a paladin forced into the uncomfortable predicament of choosing “evil A” or “evil B” can not be stripped of his status, regardless of his choice.
If these evils are grave, the Paladin can and must be stripped of his status.
nightwing]In and of itself, killing an innocent, for example, is an evil deed.  wrote:
In and of itself, killing an innocent, for example, is an evil deed. But everything has context. In and of itself, killing ANYTHING is an evil deed. Context must be considered in these cases. A paladin must regularly choose between the two “evils” of a) killing the marauding orc vs. b) allowing the orc to kill men, women, and children. There are few who would argue against a paladin choosing option a. Why? Because he has chosen the lesser of two evils. He has the greater good in mind and has chosen “the lesser of two evils.” The paladin’s moral compass, in this case, has stayed true to justice and goodness.
It's a somewhat false dichotomy. The Paladin might make such a choice in the heat of the moment, but when deliberating (or reviewing their actions) they ought to realise that killing is simply evil, and that status cannot change no matter the situation. Hence, slaying orcs in defence of innocents is, naturally, what the Paladin ought to do: that doesn't mean that killing them is 'good'. Again, if the Paladin doesn't realise that they are doing wrong and pray for forgiveness then they're simply not a Paladin.
nightwing]Why would we treat any other choice differently?  wrote:
Why would we treat any other choice differently? The paladin who must choose between a) kill the innocent vs. b) unleash the demon is not willingly committing evil.
Yes, she is.
nightwing]He is simply deciding which action has worse consequences for all of humanity.
Wrong moral system, sorry.   wrote:
He is simply deciding which action has worse consequences for all of humanity.[/quote] Wrong moral system, sorry. Also, Paladins need to take into account all sentient beings (not just all sapient ones, by the way: it's a common mistake to think that Paladins don't need to worry too much about cattle).
nightwing]Though (in and of itself) killing the innocent would be an evil act, he is clearly not committing it of his own volition.  wrote:
Though (in and of itself) killing the innocent would be an evil act, he is clearly not committing it of his own volition. This is not a willing act, it is a forced act. His hand is forced by unkind circumstance.
It's a forced evil act.
nightwing]Thus, there is no conceivable way this paladin would be judged unfavorably by his deity.  wrote:
Thus, there is no conceivable way this paladin would be judged unfavorably by his deity. So long as a paladin chooses the least evil of all available options, his moral compass is pointing true. All this means that when we read the statement, “loses all class abilities if he willingly commits an evil act…” in the rules text, we must not ignore the word willingly, lest we begin judging paladins’ behavior unfairly.
I agree (mostly) with the conclusion. However, the Paladin must recognise that they do wrong in choosing the lesser evil, and seek forgiveness.
nightwing]What does a paladin do with the kobold females and young after he has slaughtered all the kobold warriors?  wrote:
What does a paladin do with the kobold females and young after he has slaughtered all the kobold warriors? I believe that the alignment system was invented to simplify decisions like this, rather than complicate them. Any creature whose race or class is described as being “always (lawful, neutral, chaotic) evil” CAN be killed by a paladin even if they have not committed any specific evil act.
Kobolds are "usually" evil.
nightwing]This seems to contradict what I’ wrote:
This seems to contradict what I’ve just finished saying in previous paragraphs. Consider this question: “Should the lawful-good farmer ruthlessly butcher rabbits because he knows that they will grow up, reproduce, and decimate his crops?” Certainly, farmers do, and it is not considered evil, generally. Unfortunate, but not evil.
Why would that be considered not evil? "Good characters make personal sacrifices for others. "Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others."
The farmer is undertaking an evil, selfish act.
nightwing]If a paladin can kill neutral rabbits, how much more so then when the paladin KNOWS that the kobolds that he leaves alive will certainly multiply and come back to wreak more destruction?  wrote:
If a paladin can kill neutral rabbits, how much more so then when the paladin KNOWS that the kobolds that he leaves alive will certainly multiply and come back to wreak more destruction? It is true that the Monster Manual states that even some “always evil” monsters are not evil. However, a good DM will make the circumstances extremely rare, and significant enough that the paladin will know the difference.
Well, Kobolds aren't always evil; you tend to see that alignment with creatures like Chromatic Dragons and the denizens of the Lower planes (even Drow are only "usually" evil). In those cases of always evil, the Paladin might be justified in slaying them mercilessly, as their chances for reform are exceedingly low.
To run amuck killing Kobolds is simply an evil act: the Paladin could fight their warriors and drive the tribe away, but he should make great efforts to avoid killing them.
[snip the rest on Kobolds, as it's predicated on a mistake; legitimacy is something I'll come back to later - I admit that expediency drives my actions at times! ]
[b]What is “legitimate authority?” This term is by far the most ambiguous term the PHB uses in describing paladin-ly behavior. A paladin should understand that not all governments are good governments, not all parents are good parents, and not all bosses are good bosses. However, the alignment of authority figures, whether governments, parents, or bosses, are not what determines their legitimacy. The main questions a paladin should ask when deciding whether an authority is legitimate or not are, “Did this authority figure obtain his authority in the normal way? Is this authority figure acting within its societal role?”
This doesn't seem to get to grips with what the Paladin should be concerned with. By the questions you single out for legitimacy, the Paladin should accept the priestess of Lloth just because she obtained her authority in the normal way (assassination of her superiors) and acts in her proper societal role (brutal, callous and oppressive).
nightwing]A person who kidnaps a child and claims to be its parent certainly did not obtain his parental role in a normal way (via birth or adoption), so his authority over the child is not legitimate.  wrote:
A person who kidnaps a child and claims to be its parent certainly did not obtain his parental role in a normal way (via birth or adoption), so his authority over the child is not legitimate. The counselor who usurped the throne by having the good king assassinated did not come by his authority in the normal way (via the rightful succession or appointment of an heir), so a paladin would not feel compelled to “respect” that authority. However, during the course of his adventures a paladin might find himself in a country where it is perfectly normal for one ruler to be assassinated by the next. In this case, the paladin must respect that authority, even though he may detest it.
I tend to think that the Paladin ought to use a different notion of legitimacy if they're really going to be 'good'. Here's two alternatives:
We might allow for Paladins determining the legitimacy of authority in the sense that authority is derived from the gods, and that poor leaders are those that do not deliver unto their subjects as the gods deliver unto them. The problem for this model is that the gods in D&D aren't (usually) omni-benevolent, but if your campaign does have a monotheistic creed with an all-loving god, its Paladins might think this way.
The other way of looking at things is that supreme executive authority derives from a mandate from the masses (and not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!). In other words, the Paladin has to look at how well an authority serves those that they are responsible to. This is problematic in that it's a lot of legwork, and that the Paladin has to determine just what constitutes consent to be ruled (is being 'happy' good enough? What else might be required?).
(My main reason for drawing this distinction is that it makes the Paladin's code non-contradictory: it's absurd to say that the Paladin should respect legitimate authority except when it's evil. What we want to say is that legitimate authority will tend not to be evil - if it doesn't, then the Paladin has deeper problems than just following the code!)
I don't think it's always right to choose the lesser of two evils. For a paladin, it's not that easy. The paladin should be compelled to try to find a third way out, where (from your example) he wouldn't have to kill the innocent child or release the demon. A perfect example of this is Vash the Stampede from Trigun. Nicholas D. Wolfwood says, "However, I do know of a guy who whines, cries, throws tantrums and he somehow manages to find a way to save everyone. He's a crazy man, who's not afraid of anything. Even though he's been scarred from head to toe, he'll always be there."
A paladin should try to do whatever it takes to go around the situation and find the 3rd option where he doesn't have to do any evil before he seriously considers the option of choosing the lesser evil. I think this attitude is what makes somebody a paladin.
This is a good article that is well thought out. Though, I believe you're attempting to establish a basis for judgment using the alignment system. On the other hand of this, I believe the alignment system is somewhat baseless on purpose. There is some ambiguity within the alignment system so that DMs and players alike can use their own morals, values, and beliefs (MVBs). Most alignment conflicts on these boards arise when players with real world conflicting MVBs try to establish their MVBs as the true interpretation of D&D alignments. When someone comes along and points out that their could be a hint of conflict between a real world MVB and the D&D alignment system, someone else tries to argue the concept of alignment back into (no pun?) alignment with their MVB. That hint of conflict is really just an interpretation based on another MVB that conflicts with 1st real world MVB and does not really exist in the alignment system of D&D.
So, what am I saying about alignment? Your group needs to establish its own interpretation of the alignment system based on the player's and DM's MVBs. In most established play groups arguments will not arise over misinterpretation of the alignment based on MVBs of a player or DM because in most established play groups the players and DMs alike share the same MVBs. However, in newer play groups or games with strangers (such as starting up a game at a local gaming shop or playing at a convention), if there exists a chance of an MVB (i.e., alignment) conflict, the DM needs to establish basis for alignments for all the players so that they are aware how the DM might arbitrarily make a judgment on something that is alignment based, such as a player playing a paladin. If a DM and player know how they will interpret these situations in terms of alignment in the D&D game they are playing then they will avoid nasty alignment arguments down the road. Alternately, if their concept of alignment is radically different from one another, they may elect not to play in the same group due to this conflict of MVBs.
All in all I would tend to agree with most of what you suggested, to a point. The only points of contention I would raise are in regards to the slaughter of kobolds, the respect for authority, and the murder of infants:
Re: The slaughter of kobolds Paladins necessarily show a respect for life. Slaughtering animals, self-aware or otherwise, is not the sort of thing a paladin will do. Paladins should be far more likely to relocate or imprison the kobolds. If there is no hope of repentance, and imprisonment would be a cruel fate, then the paladin is honor-bound to do what they can. Indeed, even if all the kobolds show up as evil, a paladin is generally forced to be reactionary. Only evil outsiders, chromatic dragons, and possibly some aberrations are purely evil enough to justify active hunting and wholesale slaughter. That being said, the Paladin could choose to eliminate the entire nest, doing so in the quickest and most humane way possible. They would then be expected to atone posthaste for their 'sin'.
Re: The respect for authority A Paladin's respect for authority is drawn from their requirement to be lawful. This means that a Paladin will abide by the laws of an area that do not directly oppose a Paladin's code. Even evil authority could be legitimate, but only Lawful Evil has much of a chance at this, and even then a fleeting chance at best. For determining "legitimacy" I think two factors need to be weighed by the paladin. One, is this authority conducive to the survival of a lawful good individual? And two, does this authority claim power in a way that is in line with the standards of my religion/deity/morality?
An authority that fails both tests should not be respected, and should probably be overthrown. In this way a king who ascended to power but proved to be tyrannical is not legitimate (fails the first test). And a seemingly benevolent leader who came to power by assassination is not legitimate either (fails the second test). It is worth noting that this can pose interesting dilemmas for a paladin who wants to overthrow an evil leader, as choosing a successor must be done with great care.
Re: The murder of infants I am in agreement with those that feel the Paladin should find a third option. Indeed, when faced with a choice so drastic as the slaughter of an infant or the release of an all-powerful demon, a Paladin could kill the child, accepting that they will immediately lose all their powers, and may be hard-pressed to atone. Or (and i think this is the more likely choice), they would rescue the child, and then dedicate themselves to stopping the demon as quickly as possible. Because D&D does not work from a consequentialist perspective, the act of saving an innocent child is better than killing the child, even if it entails releasing a demon. This is because the Paladin cannot know certainly what the effects of releasing the demon will be. The one exception I might allow for a Paladin faced with this sort of quandary would be for the character to use one of the more powerful divination spells to ascertain which outcome will have greater overall utility in the interest of perpetuating Good. Barring that option, the Paladin is screwed if they can't find a 3rd door. The game system doesn't ever claim to be immune to the effects of abusive DMs who force their players into unwinnable situations :D
I completely disagree with your assertions about Paladin morality. Choosing the lesser of two evils is a fundamental part of being a Paladin. A character unable to commit any evil act whatsoever is a character unable to act. Period. They would be unable to fight, even if the person being fought was an evil Kobold who was torturing thousands of innocent children. If the Paladin saw someone in the forest being stabbed to death, they would be unable to move, due to the fact that any movement on their part would be likely to crush countless small insects, and, as you yourself said so eloquently,
Derrick]killing is simply evil
.
Also, there is one more thing I disagree with wrote:
killing is simply evil[/quote] .
Also, there is one more thing I disagree with:
nightwing]Though (in and of itself) killing the innocent would be an evil act, he is clearly not committing it of his own volition. This is not a willing act, it is a forced act. His hand is forced by unkind circumstance.
It's a forced evil act.
And, as it quite clearly states in the Paladin's Code, which is so kindly posted right at the top of this page, committing a forced evil act does not violate Th wrote:
Though (in and of itself) killing the innocent would be an evil act, he is clearly not committing it of his own volition. This is not a willing act, it is a forced act. His hand is forced by unkind circumstance.[/quote] It's a forced evil act.[/quote] And, as it quite clearly states in the Paladin's Code, which is so kindly posted right at the top of this page, committing a forced evil act does not violate The Code.
Derrick](paladin's) ought to realize that killing is simply evil, and that status cannot change no matter the situation.
Killing is not evil in D&D. Not mechanically evil, not emotionally evil, and not fantastically evil.
A paladin is the personification of righteous vengeance, the knight in shining armor that brings judgment on the evil-doers by heroic might. He is doing his proper lawful good role when he decapitates the leader of the orc raiders. He is fulfilling his destiny when he charges the demon with his lance. The combat he enters is certainly dangerous, but it isn't evil. It is good. Otherwise, he would just be a really bad healer, and frightfully non-heroic.
P.S. Killing rabbits is more debatable. They are really cute, so that makes killing them a bit harder. Good thing most Paladins don' wrote:
(paladin's) ought to realize that killing is simply evil, and that status cannot change no matter the situation.[/quote] Killing is not evil in D&D. Not mechanically evil, not emotionally evil, and not fantastically evil.
A paladin is the personification of righteous vengeance, the knight in shining armor that brings judgment on the evil-doers by heroic might. He is doing his proper lawful good role when he decapitates the leader of the orc raiders. He is fulfilling his destiny when he charges the demon with his lance. The combat he enters is certainly dangerous, but it isn't evil. It is good. Otherwise, he would just be a really bad healer, and frightfully non-heroic.
P.S. Killing rabbits is more debatable. They are really cute, so that makes killing them a bit harder. Good thing most Paladins don't farm.
Derrick]Also, Paladins need to take into account all sentient beings (not just all sapient ones, by the way: it's a common mistake to think that Paladins don't need to worry too much about cattle).
....
Why would [slaughtering rabbits and other pests] be considered not evil? "Good characters make personal sacrifices for others. "Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others."
The farmer is undertaking an evil, selfish act.
This may be a bit off topic, but I would dispute this moral standard as a basis for paladinly conduct. First, by that standard, anyone who sprays for ants on the counter, swats flies and mosquitoes, puts flea collars on their (mammalian) pets, or takes antibiotics for a disease is selfish and evil, which is intuitively hard to accept. While there are religions that advocate such conduct, the ideal of ahimsa is exceedingly hard to realize for a character expected to defend good people against threats that, if they were vulnerable to satyagraha in the first place, wouldn't be Evil. While everything is ultimately up to the DM, it is a rare group of orcs who would see nonresistance as anything but contemptible and an excuse for slaughter, and a rare player who would be happy with their paladins becoming a long succession of forgotten martyrs.
Second, and less relevant, the game makes special allowances for characters who wish to practice attenuated forms of ahimsa, which implies that "normal" paladins are not held to that high a st wrote:
Also, Paladins need to take into account all sentient beings (not just all sapient ones, by the way: it's a common mistake to think that Paladins don't need to worry too much about cattle).
....
Why would [slaughtering rabbits and other pests] be considered not evil? "Good characters make personal sacrifices for others. "Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others."
The farmer is undertaking an evil, selfish act.[/quote] This may be a bit off topic, but I would dispute this moral standard as a basis for paladinly conduct. First, by that standard, anyone who sprays for ants on the counter, swats flies and mosquitoes, puts flea collars on their (mammalian) pets, or takes antibiotics for a disease is selfish and evil, which is intuitively hard to accept. While there are religions that advocate such conduct, the ideal of ahimsa is exceedingly hard to realize for a character expected to defend good people against threats that, if they were vulnerable to satyagraha in the first place, wouldn't be Evil. While everything is ultimately up to the DM, it is a rare group of orcs who would see nonresistance as anything but contemptible and an excuse for slaughter, and a rare player who would be happy with their paladins becoming a long succession of forgotten martyrs.
Second, and less relevant, the game makes special allowances for characters who wish to practice attenuated forms of ahimsa, which implies that "normal" paladins are not held to that high a standard.
"Have a nice day." - Guardia de Mieux
Every time a peasant child goes to bed with a full stomach, somewhere a druid cries.
Qui istal tengwa quentele sina, orinyel hauta tengwa ar auta et coalyallo.