Fanataical follower is still a mind-affecting effect, and therefore not likely to work against Dispater - though you would get a Rank check, so it could be the best chance of anyone....Then tell him to go kill Asmodeus after turning over his cosmic power to you.
Fanataical follower is still a mind-affecting effect, and therefore not likely to work against Dispater - though you would get a Rank check, so it could be the best chance of anyone....Then tell him to go kill Asmodeus after turning over his cosmic power to you.
Well even if you can't make him fanatical, you should still be able to make him helpful and likely that might be enough to talk him into some kind of deal to get him out of the Iron Tower, especially coupled with a high bluff check. Dis has a fairly high sense motive, but it's still beatable.
Once you get him out you just get him to hold your soul trapping gem, perhaps using your bluff to have convinced him its some artifact of power that will help him overthrow the other lords of the Nine.
Squirrellloid, the Iron Tower is a Major Artifact. It can be damaged and/or destroyed in single way only. I were asking Witch for SDA that would allow me to resolve this problem, partially, but he said NO. Thus we are stuck with "One Method".
Probably if You remove reference to Reality Rending, and leave only "It wakes Outer Gods, efffects are up to DM." Your artifact would be more acceptable for Witch. More tentacle horror, I say !
Witch, is possible to protect oneself from Divine Senses by magic ? Portfolio sense, for example. Will suffice if the protected being just block remote sensing on oneself ?
2) Could one use avatars as additional spellcasters in epic spells ?
3) Is possible time-manipulation in a plane that have Timeless trait, like Astral ?
4) How time flows when we compare Timeless plane and plane where time flows ? Example: Guy leaves Plane A for Astral at 11:59 AM. Since Astral have Timeless trait, he should be back at the extact moment he entered Astral, regardless of "relative time" spent in Astral.
Depends on the divination, ofcourse. With things such as Scrying, yes it'll work.
Venenum wrote:
Witch, If i have a proxie create some hellfire engines, at max HD, will they count against my party limit, or should i just not bring them?
Hellfire engines are the providence of Malphas, and hence Bael. One can be found at the Lake of Fire, the others are littered across Avernus. Gods do not have a full HD Hellfire Engine.
goro wrote:
Does anyoneknow here I could find a generic outsider template? I want to build a non-good non-evil unique outsider, but I don't know how to give it special abilities or special qualities. Any help would be appreciated
Why would generic outsiders get any special abilities?
Venenum wrote:
Her is a fully Revised version of my divine rejeneration ability form several pages ago for editing.
Prerequisites: Con 29 or the fast healing special quality. Benefit: The deity gains regeneration of 20 + her divine rank. Lost limbs or body parts reattach instantly when pressed against the wound on the body and regrow in 1d6 minutes. The deity’s regeneration is overcome by one common source an alignment or material, or energy type. Suggested Portfolio Elements: Endurance, healing.
well can i use it.
Yes, if you add formatting.
Also what would you price that sword that cuts thru force at, from the BoVD. I want the ability to cut anthing for my deity's axe.
I'd need to read that ability first and have no access to my BoVD at the moment.
goro wrote:
Is the parents racial HD additon factored into the marquis Half-Fiend templates CR/LA, or is that an additional increase?
It's factored in.
Archtyrant Terevoth wrote:
Here's an idea... what if you just went in there with a diplomacy build? Dispater may have a bunch of immunities against attacks, but he's still vulnerable to normal non-magical sweet-talking.
Because Diplomacy abuse makes for a broken cosmology, and things that ensure a broken cosmology are banned - how would you feel if suddenly an NPC made a Diplomacy check to make your character helpful to his greatest enemy, for example? Diplomacy is broken. To try and abuse it is nigh equivalent to claiming a lack of imagination and balance. There's another reason people haven't been trying it, either - I've made my stance on such a thing perfectly clear. I assign heavy circumstance penalties on Diplomacy rolls.
Then you convince Dispater to leave the Iron Tower and go to another plane, easy enough since he's fanatically devoted to you. Then hand him a Trap the soul gemstone big enough to contain him (a 100k gem should do the trick). No save, no SR. End of story.
You see, this is the kind of thing that Diplomacy should never ever be able to do. Social skills don't alter someone's fundamental being. Dispater, who has been paranoid for billions of years, will not leave his tower because you're a quite diplomatic guy.
Teveroth: Way, way back Witch put the kibosh on Diplomacy tricks. Good social skill can be helpful, but stuff like that would give a circumstance penalty of -999 or so. But you might be able to talk your way past the guards and into the tower proper, which is further than anyone else has gotten yet.
Venenum: if you really need cannon fodder, max hitdice adamantine golems or stone collossi should work ok. But they won't do much good against the likes of Dispater (or Merorem, or probably Glasya), and I haven't seen a lot of of minions on Dispater's side anyway.
Rik: Whatever is more disturbing, dry shriveled tongues which never the less writhe and adhere, or moist and slavering tongues. Perhaps both.
Because Diplomacy abuse makes for a broken cosmology, and things that ensure a broken cosmology are banned - how would you feel if suddenly an NPC made a Diplomacy check to make your character helpful to his greatest enemy, for example?
But in this case, the character is in fact a pit fiend who serves Dispater, not exactly some random guy coming into his tower, so as far as circumstance penalties go, I wouldn't assume there would be one to get Dispater to friendly disposition towards you.
As far as diplomacy, I can agree it's rather broken, but this is the only real advantage the PCs have in this challenge, given that you're facing off against someone who can kill you in one action and has an ability that can arbitrarily negate any attack you throw at him 9 times per day. You're pretty much going to need to use some kind of cheese to take Dispater out out.
From reading the previous attempts thread, it's pretty clear that brute force isn't going to win, considering Dispater seems to nullify almost any magic that characters use. The challenge is set up in a way such that the tower itself is invulnerable and clearly you're not able to fight your way through all the levels of the tower, so that forces you to use something alternative. You need to either go with a social skill based trickster, or possibly a stealth character with greater invisibility and hide in plain sight.
Given that teleportation doesn't work and Dis is sitting in the midst of a huge tower, you really haven't left many options. Unless of course you'll allow people to design epic spells which are capable of circumventing the teleportation block as an ad hoc modifier. You need specific tools solely to disable the arbitrary immunities of the tower, unless you want to fight through all the levels, which would take forever. Because you're supposed to get through it in a separate trial thread, I'm going to assume fighting your way in floor by floor is not what's intended, thus you've got to think outside the box.
Options are severely limited as long as the tower is invulnerable and you can't get inside with magic.
Diplomacy is broken. To try and abuse it is nigh equivalent to claiming a lack of imagination and balance. There's another reason people haven't been trying it, either - I've made my stance on such a thing perfectly clear. I assign heavy circumstance penalties on Diplomacy rolls. You see, this is the kind of thing that Diplomacy should never ever be able to do. Social skills don't alter someone's fundamental being. Dispater, who has been paranoid for billions of years, will not leave his tower because you're a quite diplomatic guy.
Well as stated, it's not entirely unbelievable if you come to him and inform him of some urgent thing that merits his attention. It's not pure diplomacy that's doing it either, there's bluff mixed in as well.
Get him to be your friend with diplomacy, then convince him of some urgent reason why he needs to leave his tower. When he gets there, trick him into touching the soul binding gem (also another use of bluff). Dis has an impressive sense motive, but nothing a 70th level character can't beat.
But anyway, if you're nerfing Diplomacy, you should probably put it in your original post, I checked the list for stuff you approved/didn't and didn't see anything about diplomacy, so I assumed it was okay.
As far as diplomacy, I can agree it's rather broken, but this is the only real advantage the PCs have in this challenge, given that you're facing off against someone who can kill you in one action and has an ability that can arbitrarily negate any attack you throw at him 9 times per day.
Unlimited times per day, actually. Getting through the Iron Curtain is possible, just difficult. nameless can do it, and so can the 70 HD/Con 70 folks if they bring some buffs.
And he can't kill you in one action, as far as I can see. It's not terribly hard to make a character invulnerable to almost everything I know of that Dispater can do.
You're pretty much going to need to use some kind of cheese to take Dispater out out.
Well, yes. Hence Buugipopuu's abuse of the Monster of Legend template to get a max-stats deity with cherry-picked class features and ablative spell armour, and my own designs on Rainbow Servant cheese.
From reading the previous attempts thread, it's pretty clear that brute force isn't going to win, considering Dispater seems to nullify almost any magic that characters use.
That's why so much effort has gone into working out how to get planar bubbles to stay up. Resulting in Venyx's artefact plan and nameless' epic spell.
Options are severely limited as long as the tower is invulnerable and you can't get inside with magic.
Yes you can. I have a cunning plan to do just that.
All that said, Bluff (Nonmagical suggestion) -ing and diplomancing your way to Dispater is indeed the best idea I know of to actually find him. Just don't expect to get fanatical followers out of it or Dispater himself doing what you want, since the suggestion has to be worded to sound 'reasonable' to a paranoid loon.
Suggest-ing he touch a soul trapping gem was an idea I had, but I couldn't quite get my Bluff high enough.
But anyway, if you're nerfing Diplomacy, you should probably put it in your original post, I checked the list for stuff you approved/didn't and didn't see anything about diplomacy, so I assumed it was okay.
Maybe that ruling master list a few pages back could be copypasted.
The Iron Tower is a greater Artefact so he is undestructabel except one way. A high enough bardic lore or similar check could do reveal the one way, or not?
When somebody is in the tower and he gets imprisoned in a room like Petra. Does this mean there is no nonmagical way to leave it? because you cannot damage the tower.
Witch: Yes, if you add formatting. I'd need to read that ability first and have no access to my BoVD at the moment.
A) What do you mean by formatting. B) IT is the angel Wing Razor, in the major artefacts page.
Phantom Unlimited times per day, actually. Getting through the Iron Curtain is possible, just difficult. nameless can do it, and so can the 70 HD/Con 70 folks if they bring some buffs.
A con 70, 70 HD, character, makes Dispater, need an 18 or higher to make the save.
Maybe an axe that can cut thru a wall of force, may grant a bonus on that DC...
I think i have a way to make the character, immune to most of dis throws at me.
The Iron Tower is a greater Artefact so he is undestructabel except one way. A high enough bardic lore or similar check could do reveal the one way, or not?
Sure, it could.
When somebody is in the tower and he gets imprisoned in a room like Petra. Does this mean there is no nonmagical way to leave it? because you cannot damage the tower.
I don't think there is a nonmagical way, no.
Venenum wrote:
Witch: Yes, if you add formatting. I'd need to read that ability first and have no access to my BoVD at the moment.
A) What do you mean by formatting. B) IT is the angel Wing Razor, in the major artefacts page.
Formatting means that you bold the appropriate words.
Rikandur_Azebol wrote:
Witch, is possible to protect oneself from Divine Senses by magic ? Portfolio sense, for example. Will suffice if the protected being just block remote sensing on oneself ?
I can think of no way. Maybe JD, Merc or Selah have an idea about it.
2) Could one use avatars as additional spellcasters in epic spells ?
Yes, though I find it thematically sad to a degree - when you see gods use avatars in a storyline, you don't see them as a bunch around the god in question.
3) Is possible time-manipulation in a plane that have Timeless trait, like Astral ?
I'm staying away from that - if Time Manipulation were possible by such notes, Merorem would be far more experienced at it, so I think steering clear of using planes for such a thing is only to your advantage.
fnord wrote:
A major artifact submission: Robe of Tortured Secrets Robe of Tortured SecretsShow
Upon casual examination, this robe appears to be made of rough leather. The true form of the robe is revealed to any who don it, or examine it with true seeing: it is fashioned from thousands of tongues, stitched together with wires of platinum, mithral, and adamantine. As soon as it is donned, thousands of voices fill the mind of the one who don it, whispering maddening and dark secrets. Anyone who is not a worshiper of Melkor must immediately make a will save (DC 45) or be reduced to a babbling idiot, as per the feeblemind spell. Anyone who is lawful or good must make another will save or be driven insane, permanently confused. This effect is not blocked by any items short of artifacts, nor are creatures immune to mind-affecting effects spared (though mindless creatures are). If the saves are successful, they must be repeated every 90 hours until the robe is removed. Removing the robe is not easy, however, because once donned it clings to flesh and clothing with incredible force. The wearer can escape with a DC 65 escape artist check, or anyone can pull it off with a DC 45 strength check, but this deals 6d6 points of damage as skin and flesh are pulled off and remain adhered to the robe. Those who hear the whispers of the robe, whether their mind withstands the assault or not, can receive great insight from it. The are constantly aware of any possible threats, and so cannot be surprised or caught flat-footed and they gain a +2 insight bonus to AC and reflex saves. They can the benefits of true seeing constantly, and can see through up to 3 feet of dirt, one foot of stone, or one inch of common metal, but doing so intensifies the voices to such an extent the the wearer takes a point of wisdom damage per minute of use. The learn the hidden art of concealment, gaining a +30 competence bonus to the hide skill and preventing them from being found by divination effects (spells which reveal information about a general area still function, but do not reveal the wearer). The secrets of luck open to them, gaining a +1 luck bonus to all saving throws, skill and ability checks, and to caster level. They also learn secret weaknesses of creatures and how to cover their own, gaining a +1 compentence bonus to all attack rolls and saving throws and a +2 enhancement bonus to rolls to penetrate spell resistance. Finally, they learn to be the masters of vile power, rather then be mastered by it; they heal vile damage normally. In addition to the secrets they provide, the voices drown out all other attempts to influence the mind, blocking all mind-affecting effects. Even to those who cannot hear its whispers, the robe provides considerable magical protection, granting the wearer a +8 armor bonus (effective even against incorporeal touch attacks). It also gives immunity to critical hits, death effects, and energy drain. The robe can be coaxed into revealing more powerful secrets, to those who provide it with sacrifices. Each secret requires the wearer to add a certain number of tongues (which must come from creatures that can speak) to the robe, using precious metal wire worth 1500 gp per tongue. The robe magically retains it's size, regardless of how many tongues have been sewn in.Secrets of Forbidden SustenanceShow
12 tongues, 4 each from from creatures killed by starvation, dehydration, and suffocation. The wearer does not need to eat, drink, or breath.
612 tongues, which must come from creatures painfully and suddenly slain while experiencing pleasure. The wearer takes half damage from all all attacks, and is immune to magical effects which cause pain.
325 tongues, which must come from creatures able to cast spells. The wearer can cast spells with experience costs or material components without providing those components. The wearer can ignore up to 2,000 gp of material components or 2,000 xp or experience costs per day (or a mix of the two). For each additional 325 tongues added, the amount that can be ignored increases by 2,000
200 tongues, which must come from creatures with movement speeds of at least 100 feet. The wearer's speed, in all movement forms, doubles (which does not stack with other magical effects).
1,524 tongues, which must be evenly divided between creatures native to the great ring, creatures native to the mortal coil, and creatures native to the elemental planes. When away from their native plane, the wearer carries a portion of it with you, maintaining a bubble of their native planar traits in a 10 foot radius. Even if this bubble is somehow suppressed, they ignore many planar traits, including magical traits (except limited and dead magic), extremes of temperature, dangerous or limited atmospheres, excesses of elemental energy (including positive and negative energy), and other natural hazards (such as the deafening of the wind in Pandemonium, but not gravity traits or indirect effects of the planar traits such as deflection of missiles on Pandemonium). The negative effects of aligned planes are halved, and you can ignore the limited magic trait for up to 50 levels of spells (each additional tongue added allows an additional spell level to be ignored, these tongues can be added later and do not need to be split between planes as above). Finally, you can control the area around you with your force of will as if you were on Limbo.
The robe can only be destroyed by returning all the stolen tongues, including the 5,446 tongues used in its original creation, to their sources, with a healing spell on a living or raised victim, or by disposing of them in respectful, individual funeral rites for dead victims (with the body, if it still exists). The robe writhes when the tongues are being removed, and must be pinned (grapple check +85) while they are cut out.
5.5 million gp, plus additional costs for activating the secrets
Whoah. This is ehm - a very powerful artifact. Some comments: No halving damage. No doubling speed - change this to an addition of 60ft. No stacking the free XP. What check allows divination to see even the wearer of this?
