|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 6:03AM
#11
|
Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2006
|
Also on casters against fighters argument... take away the fighter's equipment (which so many people say they rely on) and take away the caster's spells (which they do rely on). Now that they are on fairly equal terms...tell me who wins. THE FIGHTER!!!!!!!!!! He'll beat the everliving snot out of the caster, stuff said mucus back up his demon hole, and repeat the process.
Of course, casters have spells to take away all the fighter's gear. Fighters don't have the means to take away a casters spells. So, which of the two above scenarios seems more likely?
In summary, if you think fighter's are broken or otherwise need fixing....take the time to LEARN how to play one.
One of the big problems with the fighter is that the power of his feats don't scale as well as the power of spells at equal level. Sure, some of his feats get stronger, but not enough to close the gap.
Granted, having a well built fighter in a group allied with a couple of casters is a wonderful asset. A strong, Power Attacking fighter can probably out damage a wizard on a single target basis round by round. At that time, the casters use buffs, debuffs, crowd control, and other enabling spells to work with the fighter to do tons of damage. In a coheisive party, a lot of the fighter's weaknesses are masked. In a PVP arena, the fighter gets pwned.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 6:16AM
#12
|
Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2005
|
 I'm sick and tired of seeing and hearing about all these fighter "fixes". People are complaining that fighters are underpowered or lacking in flavor. The fighter is a master of tactics. He's about battle field control. not just nuking monsters. A fighter's "flavor" comes from his wepon choice and feat selection, not to mention the tactics he uses and most of all..... THE ROLEPLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I might as well add as a side note of how powerful a fighter is, i've played a fighter that, by himself, tanked an advanced great wyrm red dragon... at 20th level, non-gestalt.
Also on casters against fighters argument... take away the fighter's equipment (which so many people say they rely on) and take away the caster's spells (which they do rely on). Now that they are on fairly equal terms...tell me who wins. THE FIGHTER!!!!!!!!!! He'll beat the everliving snot out of the caster, stuff said mucus back up his demon hole, and repeat the process.
In summary, if you think fighter's are broken or otherwise need fixing....take the time to LEARN how to play one.
I think you're absolutely right. Fighters are fine the way they are. I've created some fighter builds that quite honestly can't be stopped by anything BUT save or die spells. And, if built right, a fighter really doesn't need his equipment. Especially when you take the time to buy feats like "Superior Unarmed Strike" and "Rapid Blitz" at later levels. Yes fighters take time to build, but some of my favorite characters have been fighters. To all those that just dismissed this topic without actually considering the power of the fighter, shame on you.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 7:39AM
#13
|
|
|
What is this? the previous fighter thread isn't dead yet!
I don't know what you're talking about. any decent fighter has a save or die power: massive damage rule. Laugh all you want with the DC. did you know you could fumble it?
...
what else do I read ... fighters being weak without gear? why would you have a fighter without gear?
- craft check: free quarterstaff. now he's got a two handed weapon ...
- go shocktrooper/leap attack/frenzied beserker (use a feat from savage species if you don't want to take levels barbarian).
- take VoP: (hey, it stills allows a quarterstaff ...)
joink lvl 20 charger build ... for only 0 gp. Heck spellcasters will probably think he's monk ...
Really, as far as I know the reason fighters are disliked because
- people don't know how to build one
- fighter is missing fluff
- people like skills.
Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html "Signature in a box"
Show
For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint
Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment.
Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
"Some of my work:"
Show
"My ego in a box"
Show
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 7:46AM
#14
|
Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
|
I like the fighter as is, but unfortunately WotC is horrible at playtesting after initial release which leads to most non-core warrior classes being useless and thus never played or far and away more powerful than the core classes.
The fighter vs. the wizard all comes down to who goes first. If the wizard goes first the fighter either rolls real well on his save or he dies. If the fighter goes first he either rolls really poorly or he successfully grapples the wizard and the fight is over.
The best fix for the fighter is simple, ban any warrior class that's more powerful. That's pretty much everything in the ToB for starters. I also adjust them in my campaigns by taking away heavy armor proficiency and giving them 4 skill points per level. Elimination of class skills (for all classes) and giving every character 2 extra skill points per level that can only be spent on what I call background skills ensures everybody, not just the fighter, has an opportunity to add some depth to their characters.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 7:50AM
#15
|
Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2004
|
Really, as far as I know the reason fighters are disliked because
- people don't know how to build one
- fighter is missing fluff
- people like skills.
4) The warblade exists, which makes fighters fun to play again by allowing them options beyond a) attack b) full attack c) power attack.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 7:54AM
#16
|
Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
|
WE DON'T NEED NO EDUCATION!!!!!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Regardless, the OP delves off the course right from the start by involving "roleplaying examples" into something that usually amounts just to flat numbers. Don't be a fighter elitist.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 8:14AM
#17
|
Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2004
|
Granted, having a well built fighter in a group allied with a couple of casters is a wonderful asset. A strong, Power Attacking fighter can probably out damage a wizard on a single target basis round by round. At that time, the casters use buffs, debuffs, crowd control, and other enabling spells to work with the fighter to do tons of damage.
This often gets forgotten on the boards. Optimization tends to matter more than class.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 8:19AM
#18
|
|
|
currently trying to recreate the one-on-one dragon-slaying fighter i boasted about. will post it when i'm done so you can try it yourself.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 8:23AM
#19
|
Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2003
|
I'm sick and tired of seeing and hearing about all these fighter "fixes". People are complaining that fighters are underpowered ...
Cool. So as your 17th level fighter gets turned into ground round in my game you can keep chanting "fighter class is great!, fighter class is great!" and so on.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
May 05, 2008 - 8:30AM
#20
|
Date Joined:
May 23, 2007
|
This often gets forgotten on the boards. Optimization tends to matter more than class.
That is true, but to make a fair comparison, you have to assume roughly equal amounts (if optimisation can actually be quantified) of optimisation.
|
|
|
