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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 7:33PM
#1181
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2008
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so Fanatic/discount is an other example of Rules Void (see the other thread):
(1) RAW discusses symelar examples (helpfull)
(2) it does not adress fanatics, which makes it RAIITAYCPIWN
You've rephrased what he said so you can use your favorite acronym. That's not victory, tovarisch, and it's not cute.
not when he comes from behind you: you can't here if the car will drive past you, or if he's will drive into you.
OI! That quote was from me, not JaronK! 
- (perhaps assumed) DnD rule: arrows that fly past you don't hit you
- reality rule: car on the road does not hit you when you are on the sidewalk
---> so I assume that commoners (who will experience the DnD rule as reality) will behave in the same as we behave to cars...
The reason that cars don't hit people on sidewalks very often is because they're big,
loud, and, I admit I was careless not to mention this, but they're PILOTED.
Arrows are none of these. Drop the metaphor; it's untenable.
Never try to twist my words; they're twisted enough already.
Please keep in mind that agreeing with your position will not make me hold my tongue
if I don't like the way you're arguing it.
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 10:14PM
#1182
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Delete
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 10:15PM
#1183
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I'dd say its more like a wizard without ink :D
Wizard tosses a couple of ranks into craft ink(did you know ink can be made from walnut shells, as well as blood?) and craft paper. That was hard.
Also, RAW in fact does use diplomacy to change prices, albeit by a small amount. Not core however.
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 10:24PM
#1184
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2008
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If I DM RAW, and by RAW, the commoner has 0% on getting hit, I don't see why not.
Then again, I do not DM RAW, I DM "Rules As Qube dictates them and if you don't like it, you can always start a game - I'll gladly make a character" :D
edit: especially as I see markets as very intense places (with preforming artists, merchants yelling, ...) ... most of the commoners won't even notice a single arrow ...
the commoner would have to be metagaming to know that he would not be hit and you did not answer the question. If you were DM would the commoners be continuing on as though nothing is going on?
I never said it was a single arrow. You know exactly the situation I am using here, but I will humor you.
Guards start shooting and commoners(some if not all) notice they are in between the shooters sand the target(s).
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 10:31PM
#1185
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even though he knows they are not in real danger they(commoners) don't know that.
And I am just arguing the opposite: why do your commoners think they can be hit by stray arrows? there is no precedent or anything ...
You've rephrased what he said so you can use your favorite acronym. That's not victory, tovarisch, and it's not cute.
Your point?
It was just an easy way out of the discussion: 10% less cost for helpfull,
RAW does not say anything about fanatic, so it is irrelevant for for this discussion. Case closed. (I repeated it because I just like it at the end if there is a summery of the conclusion)
The reason that cars don't hit people on sidewalks very often is because they're big,
loud, and, I admit I was careless not to mention this, but they're PILOTED.
Arrows are none of these. Drop the metaphor; it's untenable.
the reason is irrelevant: when you walk on the sidewalk and a car comes from behind:
(1) you know that it comes
(2) you know that it won't hit you
commoners opperate under the same premisse: they know the arrow comes, and they know that it won't hit them.
--> hence; IMO it creates the same behaviour
Wizard tosses a couple of ranks into craft ink(did you know ink can be made from walnut shells, as well as blood?) and craft paper. That was hard.
fighter can do the same: a few ranks in craft (weapon), which also fixes the problem ...
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For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.
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Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment.
Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 10:50PM
#1186
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2008
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And I am just arguing the opposite: why do your commoners think they can be hit by stray arrows? there is no precedent or anything ... Your point?
Qube unless the commoners know the rules of the game, which they don't since they are characters in the game, they don't know they wont be hit. All they know is that arrows are flying. They know arrows are flying from point A to B, and they are in the way.
It is just like a commoner saying X probably does not have combat reflexes so if he(another commoner) goes first and I try to get by second I wont get hit. That is not a bad way to make sure you survive as a commoner, but the commoner would not know that, unless your commoners get to metagame rules in D&D instead of act realistically.
I dont know if you are a DM, or if every monster uses metagaming knowledge to make decisions, but if that is how you DM then we can agree to disagree, but if not then how do you justify the commoners knowing about the arrows, and not other parts of the game?
the reason is irrelevant: when you walk on the sidewalk and a car comes from behind:
(1) you know that it comes
(2) you know that it won't hit you
Actually it is not irrelevant because if I am on the sidewalk and the car is on the road we are on different paths unlike the arrow that is flying to hit whoever/whatever is behind me if I am a commoner
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 10:57PM
#1187
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and you did not answer the question. If you were DM would the commoners be continuing on as though nothing is going on?
when I DM I would not place combats in market places: becuase market places can't be put in 5ft squares.
But suppose I was forced in the decision ... *thinking* As I would probably use the variant rule, they would run away and hide.
... but if I was not going to use the variant rule, the commoners in that game would act as though there were no arrows (I woudn't say 'act normally' as some possibly would make room for (mellee) guards to pass, some can be specifically looking to obstruct the guards, some will be looking at the culprit so they can help the guards if they loose him, etc. ...)
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For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint
Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment.
Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
"Some of my work:"
Show
"My ego in a box"
Show
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 10:59PM
#1188
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2008
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some will be looking at the culprit so they can help the guards if they loose him, etc. ...)
That is a good idea
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 11:05PM
#1189
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metagaming knowledge
while I argue that it is not metagaming. Just like we know that you can be hit by an arrow if you are in it's path (because real life physics dictates it), a commoner will know that the arrow has no chance on hitting him (because DnD phycis dictates it)
Wraithstrike: can you tell me why your commonners would think that they will be hit by the arrow?
IMO to a commoner arguing that you can get hit by a stray arrow, will be the same as trying to argue in real life that green soccerballs are not subjected to gravity ... (for them, it does not make any sense; heck they can even (try and) proof it by shooting 2000 arrows or something ...)
Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html "Signature in a box"
Show
For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint
Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment.
Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
"Some of my work:"
Show
"My ego in a box"
Show
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
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5 years ago ::
May 30, 2008 - 11:26PM
#1190
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2006
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Wizard tosses a couple of ranks into craft ink(did you know ink can be made from walnut shells, as well as blood?) and craft paper. That was hard.
Easier than that. A Wizard with an Int of 16 can craft any masterwork item he wants (and who plays a Wizard with less than 16 Int?). That's enough for a +3. Masterwork tools takes him to +5, and the Magecraft spell (first level) brings him to +10. Now he can take 10 from there.
So yeah, all Wizards can craft their own mundane things all they want, and they don't need to put ranks into it unless they need to craft it in combat and thus can't take 10 (which is an issue when you have spells like Fabricate and Shadow Conjuration Major Creation being thrown about).
Also, RAW in fact does use diplomacy to change prices, albeit by a small amount. Not core however.
It being core isn't an issue. Note however that you subtract your opponent's diplomacy score from the end result.
JaronK
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