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I'm sick and tired of seeing and hearing about all these fighter "fixes". People are complaining that fighters are underpowered or lacking in flavor. The fighter is a master of tactics. He's about battle field control. not just nuking monsters. A fighter's "flavor" comes from his wepon choice and feat selection, not to mention the tactics he uses and most of all..... THE ROLEPLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might as well add as a side note of how powerful a fighter is, i've played a fighter that, by himself, tanked an advanced great wyrm red dragon... at 20th level, non-gestalt.

Also on casters against fighters argument... take away the fighter's equipment (which so many people say they rely on) and take away the caster's spells (which they do rely on). Now that they are on fairly equal terms...tell me who wins. THE FIGHTER!!!!!!!!!! He'll beat the everliving snot out of the caster, stuff said mucus back up his demon hole, and repeat the process.

In summary, if you think fighter's are broken or otherwise need fixing....take the time to LEARN how to play one.

It's all about preparation.

I correct myself, the advanced great wyrm was as at fighter 22, at 20 it was just a great wyrm.

I do know what I'm talking about.

Obvious troll is obvious.

In b4 lock.

TyrionWindfall wrote:

...take away the fighter's equipment (which so many people say they rely on) and take away the caster's spells (which they do rely on)

Spells are class features. Like the bonus feats. So take them away as well. Then the barbarian will proceed to beat the snot out of you (even without rage, by virtue of having better skills and hit points).

Cheers, LT.

If the game rules for the fight include full Hit Dice(no rolling, just max) & have a potent stat gen with gear re-enforcing it, the Fighter might have to be worn down a bit first, but otherwise... Power Word Kill. No Save = your dead.


On a sidenote: take away spellcasting and a spell caster is a Commoner with 1 or 2 useless class features. It's hardly an adequate comparison. However, with the right gear class doesn't matter, so... Take away a spell caster's spells & Fighter's equipment, spell caster's got gear & Fighter's got a few character feats. Since lv 20 gear > 18 or 19 character feats, Fighter would still lose. After all, the right gear can make even a Commoner a god.


But I digress. Fighter lacks skills & takes a lot of work to build just to get something that's okay. I've analyzed it many times & I keep coming to the same primary conclusion each time, Fighter needs a good bit of revision.

I love the concept of the customizable warrior that can be shaped into whatever I want, but between the class skills and the low quantity/poor quality class abilities, it's really hard to do with the book Fighter. Hence why most Fighter builds are often 1 to 2 trick ponies that take way too long in the progression of the build to start being very effective & eat up all your character feats in the process.

The limited class skills(worse than Commoner's) kills a lot of your role playing ability(since your only social skill is Intimidate) and your helpfulness as a group protector is out, since you're going to get blindsided way too often(since you can't Spot, Listen, or Sense Motive). Lack of any good skills(& having worse skills points than the freaking Barbarian), really hurts the Fighter a lot more than some people think.

In class abilities, 11 character feats from a limited list does not make for a good combat class(WotC was too lazy to come up with real abilities for the Fighter & the class suffers greatly for it). With only 11 abilities from your class you have no choice but to specialize or suffer from not being good at anything. You have to scavenge through several books for the right feats/variants & pick up a lot of spiffy gear to pick up the slack on your class. Then, you have to deal with the fact that only a handful of builds actually work worth anything.

If you specialize in one to 2 gimmicks or just deal raw damage with no actual variety in what you can do, you might as just write down a few options in case of a few general situations(especially since you have next to no class skills). Then, leave your character sheet & a set of dice for the DM(or someone else) to roll for you, while you go do something more productive with your time.


In summery, if you think Fighter is perfect/fine the way it is, you might want to actually stop & think about what all you should be able to do, but can't. It's not a worthless class. In fact, there are classes that are worse than it(such as Complete Warrior's Samurai). However, the fact remains that against casters or even some of the other warrior guys(such as Warblade or Barbarian for single weapon melee or Ranger for ranged or two-weapon melee), Fighter can't cut it in combat. At the same time, outside of combat, Fighter's crap skills make him about useless.


Here is my latest & greatest Fighter remake. It fixes the skills issue, the hard to build decently issue, the lack of real class features issue, and even helps close the gap between casters & non-casters a bit. At the same time, it still highly customizable. And it does this without forcing Tome of Battle down your throat(although, if it want it, there is a Tome of Battle option within it However, it's optional, not mandatory).

If you can look at that attempt to fix many of Fighter's bad design flaws & honestly tell me that you would rather play Fighter over the remake because Fighter is sheer perfection with no flaws, instead of wanting to play Fighter because you're in love with the class, then you're most likely delusional and there's nothing any of us can say, no facts that could be presented, and no amount of psycho-therapy that change your mind.