If I'm reading right, Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw have been removed from the possible choices, but Shadow Blade, Tiger-Blooded, Gloom Razor, and Reaping Talons are on the feat list.
This kink is the only one I see.
-j May use this with my Valenar Ranger/Revenant Blade/Eternal Blade build.
That's because those are there by default.
The ranger starts with Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw and chooses one more from Desert Wind, Iron Heart, White Raven, Stone Dragon, and Devoted Spirit, plus now Falling Star. This is similar to how the marshal starts with White Raven and picks a second from Devoted Spirit, Diamond Mind, Iron Heart and Stone Dragon (plus Falling Star when that's done).
For the record, Sky Watcher sounds so much cooler as: "You have studied the astrological patterns of the heavens at Solstice, and have been initiated into the 'lost discipline' of the Sublime Way. You may learn stances and maneuvers from the Falling Star discipline." That not only makes it sound nifty but ties it to Falling Star's default fluff.
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
The ranger starts with Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw and chooses one more from Desert Wind, Iron Heart, White Raven, Stone Dragon, and Devoted Spirit, plus now Falling Star. This is similar to how the marshal starts with White Raven and picks a second from Devoted Spirit, Diamond Mind, Iron Heart and Stone Dragon (plus Falling Star when that's done)..
I'm dumb. That's awesome. Both the Marshal and the Ranger are great.
So, am I the only one who's noticed he's updated the thing, finally, after results of playtesting in one of our weekly games?
I'm still a bit opposed to the bland nature of the recovery method, but other than that, mechanically, this baby can be said to be finished.
Just so this *bump* also gets a bit MORE new content, I've slightly retooled a marshal PrC for Pack Leader ranger entry -- the Strike Leader. It's based around leading stealthy and efficient commandos and executing absolutely killer ambushes if time allows, and can be used to add a touch of the marshal's flair to a ranger (or vice versa). Rangers and marshals do stand the most to gain from it, though.
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
So, am I the only one who's noticed he's updated the thing, finally, after results of playtesting in one of our weekly games?
Probably.
I'm still a bit opposed to the bland nature of the recovery method, but other than that, mechanically, this baby can be said to be finished.
I considered a warblade-esque system that required striking a flanked or flat footed opponent, or making a Hide check, but that seemed more complicated than it was worth, so I let it slide. As is, flanking and sneaking are probably some of the best things for a SWVR to be doing in those rounds he's not allowed to use maneuvers.
Just so this *bump* also gets a bit MORE new content, I've slightly retooled a marshal PrC for Pack Leader ranger entry -- the Strike Leader. It's based around leading stealthy and efficient commandos and executing absolutely killer ambushes if time allows, and can be used to add a touch of the marshal's flair to a ranger (or vice versa). Rangers and marshals do stand the most to gain from it, though.
I considered a warblade-esque system that required striking a flanked or flat footed opponent, or making a Hide check, but that seemed more complicated than it was worth, so I let it slide. As is, flanking and sneaking are probably some of the best things for a SWVR to be doing in those rounds he's not allowed to use maneuvers.
Two things, then:
1) Define "round". Goes from the beginning of one turn to the beginning of his next without initiating any martial maneuvers (including changing his stance) would trigger recovery. 2) If you want to keep the movement options open, allow stances to change during this round, but say he cannot take hostile actions while recovering (i.e. he can move, hide, flank, heal himself with potions, and so on, but nothing that'd break invisibility). That gives him time to restore his inner primal harmony which recovers his maneuvers.
I still feel it needs reworking, since this is essentially "the warblade's recovery but with the freedom to act instead of attack/flourish". One option is to spend a standard action touching the ground or hearing the air (equivalent of a flourish) or to use that standard action to move at least 10'. This would encourage the ranger to pack up and stay moving rather than tanking it, and since the Move action is still available, he's still capable of hiding if he has a means of cover.
That reminds me, this guy needs class-specific flavor for his recovery and readying system. Mechanically, all classes except Crusader ready their maneuvers the same way, but thematically, the swordsage meditates while the warblade goes through weapon drills while the crusader prays while the marshal discusses tactics. How would the ranger do this?
Two more points: 1) Is there a reason he doesn't get Martial Lore?
2) When Falling Star's finished, would you consider instead swapping it so he has Shadow Hand, + (Tiger Claw or Falling Star) + (Any ranger tradition, with a tradition allowing both Tiger Claw AND Falling Star)? That would begin to catch the ranger's combat duality -- and archer rangers aren't shoehorned into taking Tiger Claw maneuvers (since for them, Falling Star is a natural choice).
Oooh!
Don't mean to derail, but I could use your input on that, too.
These are NOT all my creations! The lead authors are identified as follows: [TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.
[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling) [TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme) [AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class) [RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme) [AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility) [TS] Phantom Rush: General Gish Gouda. (Gish, Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Early-Entry PrC) [TS] Storm Knight: Another kind of gish. (Melee/"Gish", Theme, Setting-Specific(Eberron), Unorthodox Methods) [TS] Inevitable Nightmare: The weapon you only have to fire once. (Melee, "Unorthodox" Methods (no charging), Reliability) [AR] Captain Constitution: The number one threat to America. (Melee, TOUGHTOUGHTOUGH, Defense, Theme) [AR] Nuker: I casts the spells that makes the peoples fall down! (Spellcaster, damage, blasting, damage) [TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme) [AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme). [TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme) [RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management) [SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum) [RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt) [AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder) [RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard) [RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster) [RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout) [AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum) [AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme) [DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x) [AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB)) [RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive) [AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork) [TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support) [DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility) [AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt) [RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical) [RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical) [TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist) [RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme) [AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity) [TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)
1) Define "round". Goes from the beginning of one turn to the beginning of his next without initiating any martial maneuvers (including changing his stance) would trigger recovery.
Exactly. This includes counters.
2) If you want to keep the movement options open, allow stances to change during this round, but say he cannot take hostile actions while recovering (i.e. he can move, hide, flank, heal himself with potions, and so on, but nothing that'd break invisibility). That gives him time to restore his inner primal harmony which recovers his maneuvers.
Ehh, not my cup of tea.
I still feel it needs reworking, since this is essentially "the warblade's recovery but with the freedom to act instead of attack/flourish". One option is to spend a standard action touching the ground or hearing the air (equivalent of a flourish) or to use that standard action to move at least 10'. This would encourage the ranger to pack up and stay moving rather than tanking it, and since the Move action is still available, he's still capable of hiding if he has a means of cover.
Another option I considered was swift action followed by making a Hide check.
That reminds me, this guy needs class-specific flavor for his recovery and readying system. Mechanically, all classes except Crusader ready their maneuvers the same way, but thematically, the swordsage meditates while the warblade goes through weapon drills while the crusader prays while the marshal discusses tactics. How would the ranger do this?
Hmm. Closer to the swordsage, but a more primal and less cerebral clearing of the mind.
1) Is there a reason he doesn't get Martial Lore?
*slaps forehead* because I forgot about his skills, and should swap Concentration out of there since he doesn't cast spells any more.
2) When Falling Star's finished, would you consider instead swapping it so he has Shadow Hand, + (Tiger Claw or Falling Star) + (Any ranger tradition, with a tradition allowing both Tiger Claw AND Falling Star)? That would begin to catch the ranger's combat duality -- and archer rangers aren't shoehorned into taking Tiger Claw maneuvers (since for them, Falling Star is a natural choice).
I could get behind this. How about letting them switch out Shadow Hand too (seeing as 'Rosse for one has never used it)? Something like "A Sublime Way Variant Ranger has access to the Falling Star, Shadow Hand, and Tiger Claw disciplines. Alternatively, you can give up access to one of those disciplines to enter one of the ranger traditions listed below, and gain access to their martial discipline and key skill."
Don't mean to derail, but I could use your input on that, too.
Later this weekend, or maybe Friday's session. I've procrastinated on this essay long enough.
If Concentration is no longer a class skill, then they're kinda SOL if they take an AoO while using a Falling Star maneuver that has a one-round aiming time. Right? Some of the falling star stuff takes a round and a hiccup to cast, just like Summon X spells.
Am I reading it right when I appear to see that, in exchange for their crappy 4th level spells, Rangers benefit from as many maneuvers and stances as Warblade, and nearly the same awesome recovery mechanic?
If Concentration is no longer a class skill, then they're kinda SOL if they take an AoO while using a Falling Star maneuver that has a one-round aiming time. Right? Some of the falling star stuff takes a round and a hiccup to cast, just like Summon X spells.
I don't think Crusaders and Artillery Captain Marshals, who also get Falling Star, have Concentration either.
FriendlyBiscuit wrote:
Am I reading it right when I appear to see that, in exchange for their crappy 4th level spells, Rangers benefit from as many maneuvers and stances as Warblade, and nearly the same awesome recovery mechanic?
Actually, the Ranger's recovery mechanic is weaker than a warblade's. See, a Warblade can alternate between maneuvers every other round as long as he makes a strike each round and keeps his swift action free. So, for example, you can switch between Avalanche of Blades and Time Stands Still as often as you want, round in round out. With the ranger, you have to go a full turn - round to round - without using any maneuvers at all. That includes counters. This is to encourage rangers to do sneaky ranger stuff like hiding or moving into flanking positions. Note also that I weakened their Favored Enemy progression (in response to playtesting findings; our group's Valenar Elf SWV ranger was a beast with double scimitars).
