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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 10:51AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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How do people feel about the flat 55% successful saving throw in D&D4? I think I see the logic behind it, but I still feel really odd about it being independent of any stats belonging to the attacker or the defender.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 11:44AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2005
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It's no more odd than 3e spell duration being independant of any stats.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 12:08PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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It's no more odd than 3e spell duration being independant of any stats.
Ah, interesting!
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 1:03PM
#4
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Well in my two experiences w/ the saving throw system used during D&Dxp I found it very frustrating. The first time was round after round rolling to save versus fear, nope, nope, nope, nope and finally after 5 round was able to act. The second was set on fire save to quit burning, nope, nope, nope, save, set back on fire nope, nope unconscious and still burning finally save, I guess I was fanning the flames until I fell unconscious. Neither of those experiences were fun because I could do nothing about it except hope I roll high next round.
If I had saved I would probably feel better about it.
I felt like I was playing a board game and needed to roll a six to put a game piece into play or a card game where I kept getting a lose your next turn card played on me.
I will have to give it some time to see whether I like it or not, hopefully the law of averages works out for me as a player.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 1:11PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2006
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i still don't like it (fixed saves). i prefer to think of defenses having some random input (and it also lets some players be very happy about their save bonuses, and happy when they roll high).
i assume this will mean rolled spell and trap "DCs" then? sounds like the DM will be doing a lot more rolling than the players; he/she has plenty of that to do already (especially with more monsters going to be the norm), and why take away something to do from the players?
to me it just seems like it will make a number of encounters loads more boring (DM: a trap is sprung! no let me make a roll to see which of you die... VS. DM: a trap is sprung! everyone roll!).
(it also kind of eliminates the possibility of players with low saves still succeeding while others don't, and requires a new rule that stuff that targets a save automatically succeeds on a 20 and fails on a 1 (to make up for the automatic success/failure rule for saving throws going away))
overall, this was one of the things about SWSE that i did not like and would rather not see being implemented in 4th.
(at least it's not really revolutionary, and i'm sure you can house rule back to the saving throw system fairly easily (just change who rolls and make static average DCs))
If you can't convince them, confuse them. -Harry S Truman
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 1:13PM
#6
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There are modifiers, they just come from feats and racial abilities.
Saves all the hassle of scaling things for level.
It also allows the DM to make a particularly potent poison, for example, by simply saving the save is at -2.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 1:15PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2008
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So far I like it. I wish they hadn't called them saving throws, because it's really not what it is.
The attack vs. your defense is "really" your saving throw, however passive your throw is. Once an attack has beaten your defense the effect goes off, you *may* then have a saving throw to make. It tracks durations and time that things are happening, no different than "effect lasts for 1d4 rounds, etc" however I have seen there are some bonuses that have come out for some saving throws.
There is, in the Keep On Shadowfell, a roving +2 to all saving throws vs a particular set of effects... PG 80 of the adventure, at the bottom of the second column in the colored textbox last sentience.
So I think it'd be more appropriate to say that these aren't modified by your stats, but I think we'll find more things will give a buff to them than we're thinking now.
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 1:19PM
#8
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2006
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I think there is a little confusion in this thread about what we are discussing. Are we talking about:
A.) 3.5e Saving throws (Reflex Save, Fortitude Save, Will save) that are now 4e Defenses (Reflex Defense, Fortitude Defense, Will Defense)
or
B.) 3.5 Durations (which only require one save, such as enfeebling ray) and Ongoing effects (which allow a save in the middle of hte duration, such as being caught on fire or certain charm/dominance spells) which was replaced by the 4e "Saving Throw" mechanic (which you roll a d20 each turn and on a 10+ it goes away).
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 1:35PM
#9
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B.) 3.5 Durations (which only require one save, such as enfeebling ray) and Ongoing effects (which allow a save in the middle of hte duration, such as being caught on fire or certain charm/dominance spells) which was replaced by the 4e "Saving Throw" mechanic (which you roll a d20 each turn and on a 10+ it goes away).
The latter... thus the flat 55% comment in the original post.
At least, that's what I'm talking about. :P
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5 years ago ::
May 20, 2008 - 1:40PM
#10
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Date Joined:
May 30, 2006
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The latter... thus the flat 55% comment in the original post.
At least, that's what I'm talking about. :P
Thats what I figured as well. I suspect this terminology change will be causing mix ups for years.
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