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8 years ago ::
Oct 05, 2005 - 10:26AM
#511
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Baku: It has been pointed out to me that an official 3.0 version of this creature actually exists. In Oriental Adventures, page 191, the creature called "Shirokinokatsukami" is obviously the new baku. Don't know why I never noticed that.
Here's a quick 3.5 update:
Large Outsider (Extraplanar, Good, Lawful, Spirit)
Attack: Gore +16 melee (1d8+7)
Full Attack: Gore +16 melee (1d8+5) and 2 claws +11 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
SQ: Change damage reduction to 15/cold iron, change fire resistance to 10
Skills: Balance +17, Concentration +18, Diplomacy +22, Jump +11, Knowledge (arcana +19, nature +6, religion* +19), Listen +19, Search +19, Sense Motive +19, Spellcraft +21, Spot +19, Survival +19, Tumble +17
* substitute for Knowledge (spirits) in an OA setting
Feats: Change Expertise to Combat Expertise, add Power Attack
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8 years ago ::
Oct 05, 2005 - 11:00AM
#512
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In Oriental Adventures, page 191, the creature called "Shirokinokatsukami" is obviously the new baku.[/quote]
They were actually different creatures in 2e. The shirokinokatsukami first appeared in the 1st edition Oriental Adventures book, and later appeared in the 2nd edition Monstrous Compendium: Kara-Tur Appendix.
The baku first appeared in Dragon #65 and later appeared in the Monster Manual II. In 2e it was in the Complete Psionics Handbook and the Planescape Monstrous Compendium, Volume One.
They're definitely similar - both magical elephant/lion hybrids, both about the same size, both associated with dreams. There are differences, too - shirokinokatsukami are magical horse/elephant/lion/gorilla/tiger/cows, while baku are more reptillian, more elephantine, and psionic.
It's not really true to say that 3e shirokinokatsukami are the "new baku," then. They're the new shirokinukatsukami. They're probably based on the same legend, but they're two very different interpretations.
That happened a number of times with 1e Oriental Adventures; Zeb Cook did a lot of original research for the book and ended up replicating what had already been done in AD&D in different, more authentic ways. For example, OA had tengu even though AD&D already had kenku, OA introduced three kinds of oni even though AD&D already had ogre magi, OA had ki l'in even though AD&D already had ki-rin, and OA had various forms of lung dragon even though AD&D already had gold dragons that looked like lung.
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8 years ago ::
Oct 05, 2005 - 11:28AM
#513
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thanks, you beat me to it, and with a lot more information than i would have given! 
I am the D&D guru on Wikipedia (because no one else wanted the job!) so check out the D&D Wikiproject at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dungeons_%26_Dragons!
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8 years ago ::
Oct 05, 2005 - 6:08PM
#514
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Thanks for the clarification, Rip.
From a PS standpoint, I don't really see how the shirokinokatsukami is more authentic than the baku. Not sure about your other examples - I was remotely aware of the kenku-tengu dualism, but was never really interested enough to look into it (until now).
IMHO, having two different creatures near-identical in concept seems ... pointless. The stats and the minor appearance differences are irrelevant, especially compared to the glaring fact that they are both D&D interpretations of the dream eaters from Japanese/Chinese mythology/folklore.
Oh, and what does "shirokinokatsukami" mean anyway?
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8 years ago ::
Oct 05, 2005 - 6:38PM
#515
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8 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2005 - 12:05AM
#516
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Maybe not, in that specific example. I was speaking more generally - Zeb Cook did a lot more research than the typical Dragon contributor.[/quote]
the typical contributor, in the case of the baku, being one E. Gary Gygax.  from issue 63-69, he printed about a dozen and a half creatures in his "Featured Creatures" column as previews for Monster Manual II, the baku being one of them.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=9651
as far as gary's research, and whether or not it coincided with zeb's, you'd have to ask him yourself: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=125997
I am the D&D guru on Wikipedia (because no one else wanted the job!) so check out the D&D Wikiproject at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dungeons_%26_Dragons!
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8 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2005 - 11:30AM
#517
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Googling each word-part seperately:
something like "Shouting god of the silk castle," the silk castle apparently being the bed.[/quote]
I was actually hoping the old OA book had a translation. Googling words separately is probably a very bad idea when it comes to Japanese. The damn language is all homonyms and antonyms and whatnot.
Shiro can also mean white and innocence.
Kino might be ki-no. "Ki" can mean tree, mind, will, 'chi', disposition, feeling ... just about anything, really. "No" is a particle.
Katsu can be a verb - "win, beat, defeat, overcome" - or a conjunction - "and, also, moreover".
Kami I prefer translated as "spirit", although that's just about as inaccurate as "god".
All in all, I have no idea what the damn elephant is actually called.
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8 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2005 - 11:46AM
#518
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actually, they wind up being much less elephant-like than baku...
I am the D&D guru on Wikipedia (because no one else wanted the job!) so check out the D&D Wikiproject at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Dungeons_%26_Dragons!
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8 years ago ::
Oct 06, 2005 - 1:23PM
#519
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8 years ago ::
Oct 20, 2005 - 1:56PM
#520
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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I was wondering if anyone was planning on/had thought of doing conversions for the quasi and para genasi from the mimir. I know they're not canon, but it would be nice.
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