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5 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 5:50AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2008
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As always, I really appreciate the help from these boards!
Okay, my PC's have to stop a prisoner transfer from the planet Salliche - our current episode is loosely based on the mini-adventure in TFU.
The map I have given them and the direct route it shows that leads from an Imperial re-education facility to the star port, where the prisoners will be loaded up and moved off world, has a large bridge. The PC's are formulating their ambush and they think they want to use the bridge as the forced stop point - their goal is to drop the span into the river below.
Now reading the Core rules, it says a small bridge (gargantuan) has 10DR 20HP and a 55 threshold. I understand engineering-wise that a few well placed explosives and you can drop a bridge no matter what the size especially due to gravity being on your side.
My question here comes due to the fact that this bridge is colossal size; made of duracrete and steel; and has three river supports that are anchored to riverbed's bedrock. So what statistics would you suggest I give the bridge? Should it be for just a piece of the bridge (i.e. they need to inflict the same amount of damage to two areas of the brige, so as to drop a chunk into the river)? Each section they attack would have the same HP, DR, and threshold, right?
Should this be a Skill challenge instead of actual 'combat'? If a skill challenge, how would you build it?
The PC's have about 7 days before the transfer is to take place, so they have time but they will be pressed to get the job done, be stealthy, and then initiate the ambush.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 6:18AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2008
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Next... some questions about explosives:
1.) I'd like to clarify how ion damage works against vehicles/droids/cybernetics:
a.) it does half of its rolled damage to everything but full damage to droids/vehicles/cybernetics, correct? Or is the half damage only done to droids/vehicles/cybernetics? Does DR resist this? Do shields?
b.) before being halved, if ion damage equals or exceeds threshold, the target moves down -2 on the CT; does DR and shields resist this effect?
c.) finally, if a target's current HP is reduced to 0, they move down -5 on CT and thus disabled... got that part.
d.) So, if a truck has has 100 hp, a damage threshold of 69, and a DR of 15 and let's say an ion mine does 8d6 ion damage and it happened to do maximum damage (48 points): does this mean that the truck would only suffer 9 points of damage [half total (24) - DR (15) = 9] and that it would not move down the condition track because it did not exceed the damage threshold?
2.) Regarding explosive mines and vehicles:
a.) the people inside of a vehicle are only affected by the damage of a weapon if the damage reduces the vehicle to 0 hit points and is greater than its threshold, then the passengers would take half of the damage, correct?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:07AM
#3
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A small bridge only has 20 hitpoint!?! Sorry, but even with DR 10 providing some protection that just seems way too weak to me. I mean come on, even small arms fire would quickly make the bridge unusable even if it takes a bit more effort to actually DESTROY the bridge.
Ok, with the little rant out of the way my counter question are do the PCs have the explosives/heavy weapons available to knock the bridge out of commission. To stop the transport they do NOT really need to DESTROY the bridge but rather "disabling" the bridge should make in impassible. I'd probably assign each section of bridge so many hitpoints and if the PCs can take them out they will make it impossible for the transport to move across those sectons.
If the PCs have the skill and material needed to plant explosives those could ignore DR. Now a small gripe I have about SAGA's explosive rules is that to get a "bigger" blast takes exponentially more explosives. I believe you should be able to set charges in sequence so you get multiple blasts instead of a largers single blast. It will take larger to set up mulitple charges and you could have some "miss" but I like the idea more because of the increased damage although you reduce the chance of exceeding an object Damage Threshold and actually destroying it.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 11:47AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2008
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A small bridge only has 20 hitpoint!?! Sorry, but even with DR 10 providing some protection that just seems way too weak to me. I mean come on, even small arms fire would quickly make the bridge unusable even if it takes a bit more effort to actually DESTROY the bridge.
Ok, with the little rant out of the way my counter question are do the PCs have the explosives/heavy weapons available to knock the bridge out of commission. To stop the transport they do NOT really need to DESTROY the bridge but rather "disabling" the bridge should make in impassible. I'd probably assign each section of bridge so many hitpoints and if the PCs can take them out they will make it impossible for the transport to move across those sectons.
If the PCs have the skill and material needed to plant explosives those could ignore DR. Now a small gripe I have about SAGA's explosive rules is that to get a "bigger" blast takes exponentially more explosives. I believe you should be able to set charges in sequence so you get multiple blasts instead of a largers single blast. It will take larger to set up mulitple charges and you could have some "miss" but I like the idea more because of the increased damage although you reduce the chance of exceeding an object Damage Threshold and actually destroying it.
Yea, I thought the same thing about how the Core rules listed the bridge's stats.
Okay, yes, the PC's have access to the explosives - paying a hefty price on the black market - and I agreet the whole bridge doesn't need to be destroyed, just a section needs to drop.
I am thinking that this is going to be a skill challenge instead of them having to roll damage on each explosive and see what overcomes what and how much damage is done. Here are my skill challenge thoughts:
Gather Information check to scout out the bridge and see its engineering.
Knowledge (physical sciences) check to determine the best way to drop the span and how much explosives it will take
Climb check and Stealth checks to move around the bridges structure to plant the explosives
Mechanics check (handle explosives)
If they get the right number of successes, the bridge span falls.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 19, 2013 - 12:17PM
#5
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With your Ion Damage I believe this is how you should look at things:
1. Roll the Ion Damage.
2. Does target have SR/DR? If so reduce damage rolled by that amount.
3. Is the target a vehicle/droid/other that is subject to Ion damage?
3a. Yes: Check rolled number against target DT and if greater move target -2 steps down CT.
3b. No. Divide rolled damage by four and apply against target's hitpoints and be done.
4. Halve damage roll and then apply against a vehicle/droid/other hit points.
In your example the DR reduces the 48 rolled down to 33. That 33 is checked against DT (69) which it isn't close to overcoming. We now take half of that amount (rounded down to 16) and apply it against the vehicle's hitpoint so it will now have 84 hitpoints remaining.
I believe your second situation is correct. People inside a vehicle that is DESTROYED (0 hp; damage > DT) only take half the damage above the vehicle's DT.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 9:00AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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If the PCs have the skill and material needed to plant explosives those could ignore DR. Now a small gripe I have about SAGA's explosive rules is that to get a "bigger" blast takes exponentially more explosives. I believe you should be able to set charges in sequence so you get multiple blasts instead of a largers single blast.
Don't forget that with a good Mechanics check, you can ignore DR (DC 15), cause double damage (DC 25) or cause triple damage (DC 35).
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 11:25AM
#7
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Don't forget that with a good Mechanics check, you can ignore DR (DC 15), cause double damage (DC 25) or cause triple damage (DC 35).
True although I know I consider DC 35 a big reach for characters. A mid level demolitions expert could expect to hit DC 25 with "take 10" as I know know I would rather not risk blowing myself up. Also remember that this is looking at the skill of the person planting the explosive but otherwise my statement of needing exponentially moe exploses to increase the blast power remains valid.
Now even with double damage an explosive charge nets 20d6 (70 damage) and each doubling would add 4d6 (14 points) of damage which would still not be enough to take out a permacrete wall or metal wall/hull (SECR 151) which should be closer to what a bridge's stats would be. Thankfully that damage would be enough to overcome the DT of those walls so five sets of charges could take the whole thing down.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:10PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2008
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I decided to go with a skill challenge to do this. I posted my challenge in the Praxeum under the You Create contest. If you read it, I would love any input.
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 6:25PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Feb 13, 2008
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Don't forget that with a good Mechanics check, you can ignore DR (DC 15), cause double damage (DC 25) or cause triple damage (DC 35).
True although I know I consider DC 35 a big reach for characters. A mid level demolitions expert could expect to hit DC 25 with "take 10" as I know know I would rather not risk blowing myself up. Also remember that this is looking at the skill of the person planting the explosive but otherwise my statement of needing exponentially more explosives to increase the blast power remains valid.
While I agree that reaching DC 35 is generally hard for most characters, a Scoundrel with the talent Bomb Thrower from (page 21) Galaxy of Intrigue can do so reliably already by level 10. It is a bit of a stretch, but with Skill Training and Skill Focus in Mechanics, an Int of 20 and Bomb Thrower you have +20 to any roll to handle explosives. By level 10 an Int of 20 is still very high, but if you start out with 16, get a racial bonus of +2 and increase your Int at 4th and 8th level it is not too much for a tech and skill monkey type of character. By 10th level you have another +5 to your Mechanics skill from level. That gives you a total of +25 to handle explosives, so take 10 will net you a "roll" of 35. Before level 10 it is much harder to pull off, as you would need an exceptional Int score to do so.
Now even with double damage an explosive charge nets 20d6 (70 damage) and each doubling would add 4d6 (14 points) of damage which would still not be enough to take out a permacrete wall or metal wall/hull (SECR 151) which should be closer to what a bridge's stats would be. Thankfully that damage would be enough to overcome the DT of those walls so five sets of charges could take the whole thing down.
Why would each doubling add 4d6 of damage? Each instance of the Demolitionist talent would add 4d6 if you roll high enough to get double damage. Maybe that is what you are talking about?
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4 months ago ::
Jan 22, 2013 - 7:34PM
#10
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Now even with double damage an explosive charge nets 20d6 (70 damage) and each doubling would add 4d6 (14 points) of damage which would still not be enough to take out a permacrete wall or metal wall/hull (SECR 151) which should be closer to what a bridge's stats would be. Thankfully that damage would be enough to overcome the DT of those walls so five sets of charges could take the whole thing down.
Why would each doubling add 4d6 of damage? Each instance of the Demolitionist talent would add 4d6 if you roll high enough to get double damage. Maybe that is what you are talking about?
This is a fair enough question as my logic may not be obvious. As stated on pg 130 of the SECR when you double the amount of explosives used you add +2 dice of damage. The explosives listed on the next page all deal damage in d6s so that would be +2d6. Figuring they made that DC 25 I had just used as part of the prior number that would turn the +2d6 into +4d6 although I guess we could just be looking at (10d6+2d6)x2 for the whole thing. Sorry for using a misleading "doubling" effect for a good Mechanics roll; if I'm rolling three dice or fewer I have "doubling" double the number of dice rolled (and double the fixed modifiers as well) to produce a more "average" answer.
Using the SECR as a guide I see three ways to increase the damage you get when using explosives:
1. Each time you double the amount of explosive used you get +2 dice in damage.
2. Each time you take the Demolitionist talent to plant your explosive you get +2 dice in damage.
3. If you use Mechanics to place an explosive you can get x2 or x3 damage from your use.
Now DC 35 may be obtainable with "take 10" at 10th-level but you would need to be pretty focused to get that. I mean you get +10 from skill training and focus, +5 from level, you can get +5 from that Bomb Thrower talent, and I guess +5 for INT 20 is possible (but when I use PB stats unlikely) for a net modifier of +25. For that kind of specialist and at that level you may also have a PrC or two that helps with explosives. I guess I also am considering 10th-level to be borderline "high" level at least with respect to my views of the game universe; as far as I'm concerned level 15+ heroic character just aren't something anyone should commonly run into even if the PCs happen to be that level.
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