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7 months ago  ::  Nov 28, 2012 - 9:04PM #1
dr_Teeth
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 63
I want to come up with some Masters for two 3rd level Jedi. Whats a good level for shoot for? Around 10 is what I was thinking. Is that too low? Also its females generally apprentice females and males for males right?
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 28, 2012 - 10:35PM #2
sienn_sconn
Date Joined: Jun 2, 2010
Posts: 1,335
Yeah, level 10 would be good.  A mechanically correct Jedi Master will be around level 13, although Obi-wan did pick up Anakin as an apprentice, and Obi-wan was probably still a Knight at the time.

It seems pretty reasonable that most of the time Jedi would pair apprentices with members of the same gender for a number of reasons:  appropriate appearence (male and female couples sometimes look out of place and can be taken wrong) and gender compatability (men generally learn how to be a man from another man, women likewise with women) are the first ones that come to mind, although there are undoubtedly others.

Now, having said this, it is not unheard of that Master/apprentice pairings are cross gender.  Anakin and Ahsoka are the most public such pair at the moment, but others include Shaak Ti and an unnamed male.  I'm still searching for other references, so I'll post them if I find them.  And if your campaign is in the Rebellion or Legacy era, fewer Jedi means you train under whoever is willing to help you, male or female.

In any event, it's ultimately your campaign, and you can have males tutor females or viceversa and be completely fine.

As an afterthought, I found this.  Same question gets asked by this guy about Master/apprentice pairings based on gender.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 28, 2012 - 10:35PM #3
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,340
What is the purpose and intended use for these "Master Jedi?"  I'd also ask how you want to define a "Jedi Master" in terms of what it can do?  I may shoot at ten levels but if I plan on having this master adventuring with the PCs MANY of those levels will be in the Non-heroic class.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 29, 2012 - 8:34AM #4
dr_Teeth
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 63
Thanks for the replies. Mostly the "Master's" will be window dressing but they will make an appearance at some point. Its a NJO era game so if I do the Battle of Ithor they will show up. I'm probably gonna kill one of them in the battle. Mostly I just want to flesh out a master/apprentice (refuse to call them Padawan because that term doesnt exist in the future) relationship for both Jedi in the group.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 29, 2012 - 9:16AM #5
richterbelmont10
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2008
Posts: 5,697



Level 10 is fine. The only caution I would advise is when the masters are travelling with the players. When this happens, the masters tend to outshine the PC’s in almost every way and the players can feel restricted or stifled.


As for gender, I think generally it’s male to male and female to female, although there are some exceptions. If you want to create a master-apprentice relationship and you want to provoke an emotional response from a male player, then the master should be like a big brother or a father figure. That way, when you kill him off, you can provoke an emotional response from the player.


 


 

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 29, 2012 - 11:15AM #6
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,340

Nov 28, 2012 -- 10:35PM, sienn_sconn wrote:

Yeah, level 10 would be good.  A mechanically correct Jedi Master will be around level 13, although Obi-wan did pick up Anakin as an apprentice, and Obi-wan was probably still a Knight at the time.
...


Here I'll disagree with the "mechanically correct" term.  The Jedi Master class may not be available before 13th-level but that title certainly could be bestowed before then.  The same is also true about Jedi Knights and the PrC of that name.  This is why I ask how you want to define a "Jedi Master" because the truth is that a Non-heroic 20 could EASILY be considered a "Jedi Master" if you're defining the term based on UtF skill modifier and perhaps even Force Powers used; also note this character is only CL 6 and really not too much stronger overall then your 3rd-level heroes.

I once did a thread on writing up and building up a Sith Lord from CL 7 to CL 14 with "Sith Lord" being defined as a character who could use Force Secrets.  With some minor bending of the Lightsaber creation rules (drop "seven heroic levels" to just "seven level" as was done with the PrC requirements) I could do the same witha Jedi Master.

If your Jedi Masters are mostly going to be "window dressing" I'll say their stats don't matter too much and will actually encourage you to build them as simply as possible using mostly non-heroic levels.  Using non-heroic levels also means that when the time comes for you to "kill them off" it is a lot easier to do so while using a threat the "grieving apprentice" could then deal with.

I guess I'd define "Jedi Master" in the Master/Apprentice relationship as being someone who can use a Force Technique.  Assuming you use my minor alteration for lightsaber construction I believe the best way to do that would be NH8/Jedi1/JK2.  This is an 11th-level character but only CL 5 so it isn't much stronger then your 3rd-level PCs.  It would have a +9 BAB and base +5 on skills before training and focus but its DEFENSE scores are only 15s based on class and level and all those levels of with a d4 HD (and no triple max starting hp) aren't going to give it a lot of hitpoints unless it has a good CON score.

Here is a basic outline for this CL 5 "Jedi Knight":
Non-heroic8/Jedi1/JK2
FP 6, DP 1 (may adjust as needed with 11/3 as max values)
hp 45; REF 16 (15ff), FORT 15, WILL 16; Block, Deflect (UtF +15)
Melee Attack:  +11 lightsaber (1d8+3)
STR 12, DEX 12, CON 10, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 10
Talents:  Block, Deflect
Force Technique:  ???? (Choose appropriate to your campaign)
Force Powers:  Choose 4
Feats:  Force Sensitivity, WP (simple, lightsaber), Skill Training (UtF), Skill Focus (UtF), Force Training x2, ?one open?.
Skills: +5 base; Acrobatics (or one other) +11, UtF +15
Possessions:  Self Built Lightsaber, Jedi Robes.

This basic model leaves a few things open for you to fill in (Technique, Powers, one feat, and Species/species modifiers) but gives you a character who is AMAZING with the force (but feel free to drop SF for another trained skills if desired) has accurate attacks and a good defense due to Block/Deflect but who can go down quickly if overwhelmed.  Your Jedi3 should have DEF Scores and hitpoints that are very comprable.

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7 months ago  ::  Nov 29, 2012 - 11:15AM #7
fairytalejedi
Date Joined: Mar 2, 2002
Posts: 1,712
One of the most famous master/apprentice pairings was Quinlan Vos and Aayla Secura.

In short, gender makes absolutely no difference.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 29, 2012 - 11:18AM #8
StevenO
Date Joined: Apr 9, 2004
Posts: 14,340
Oh, forgot to comment on the gender thing.  If you consider that you see different SPECIES mixed up in the master/apprentice pairing I don't imagine gender would be an over riding concern.
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 29, 2012 - 10:19PM #9
dr_Teeth
Date Joined: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 63
Thanks again for the great responses. This is gonna be my first time as a DM and I want to try to make it special for everyone. One of the players wants to be a Miraluka Jedi. Thats gonna be interesting with the Yuuzhan Vong
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7 months ago  ::  Nov 29, 2012 - 11:30PM #10
Darth_Raptornus
Date Joined: Jul 3, 2006
Posts: 62
Haha oh wow. I'm 100% for taking "cool" or "what I like" over "what is the most efficient build" but I'd seriously advise that player to change species if he doesn't want to be useless for 50% or more of the fights.
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